FightFireJay Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I purchased my M&P Pro 5" for use in Limited / ESP. Unfortunately with 2 different hand loads and 1 factory load all are shooting about 5-6 inches low at 15 yards. Here's my options (I think). - File down the front sight(doesn't seem like a good idea on OEM FO front) - Buy a taller rear (do they even make them?) - Buy an adjustable rear (although it may not be able to adjust low enough, therefore over compensating, making buy taller front) - Screw it, buy a whole new set of sights (I'm cheap!) - Send it back to S&W so they can tell me it groups fine and I just need to aim higher. Mostly I am hoping to get away with only purchasing an adjustable rear. The only problem is... how tall are they? Is anyone willing to measure the height of their adjustable sight at it's lowest setting?? (Stock front sight looks to be about .190" high and the rear is about .245" tall when measured from the back of the slide.) Thanks in advance, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 You might take a look at the Dawson Precision adjustable rear sight for the M&P: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000998-1231195463 If you need more information call Dawson Precision and ask for Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeislarge Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 My Buddy had the same issue. If you search the forum you'll find gobs of other threads discussing the same thing. Suck it up and buy a Dawson adjustable rear sight and a fiber optic front, or something similar. If you want to compete in Limited, and you're anything like the other 99% of us shooting matches, it won't be your final upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 You might take a look at the Dawson Precision adjustable rear sight for the M&P: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000998-1231195463 If you need more information call Dawson Precision and ask for Daniel. Unfortunately it doesn't say how much taller the adjustable is than the stock sight. I do like the style of those compared to the Novak adjustable. The other thing I am thinking is the adjustable sight has a narrower notch, necessitating a narrower (and taller) front sight. Thanks for the replies... any other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodelta Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 You'll need to change the front too. The stock front is about .150 tall on mine. You need at least the .265 tall front they sell to go with the Dawson adjustable rear. The stock front is too wide for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseman Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Give it up. I tried several different front sights and some were close but none were perfect. Little high a little low. Dawson recommends a .305 front which is what I ended up with and it is tall but no problems. I think you could likely get by with a .285 which is what I would get if I had a do-over. I don't know why they can't make the Dawson rear a bit lower but they likely have a good reason. As I recall the left right adjustment for a Novak is a hammer. Some adjustable. The Dawson rear is sweet. Get a set and be done or spend a hundred on trying to make something else work like I did being cheap then buy the set from Dawson anyway. I sure have been happy with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Had the same issue with FO sights on my 9 Pro 5". Was tempted to do Dawson adjustable but the front was so high it didn't make sense to me on what is supposed to be a combat gun. Installed Trijicon SA37's and could not be happier. Gun shoots point of aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhearn Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (Stock front sight looks to be about .190" high and the rear is about .245" tall when measured from the back of the slide.) Jeremy. Changed mine out for the Pro 5" in 9mm. Shooting minor power factor in USPSA. I went with the Dawson Precision adjustable rear. I had a Dawson .240 on the front which is shorter than what they recommend. I had the rear sight cranked way up to make it work. Didn't like it that far up and didn't like the tall front sight. I just replaced it with Dawson's .210 in the front. It works but I had to crank the rear sight down to its absolute lower limit. Irritating. However, it works for me. Good luck. MHearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProGunGuy Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) i would just get a 160 or 150 front from Dawson http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000D08-1278688137 Edited July 12, 2012 by ProGunGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 What does the Dawson adjustable look like from the back? Anyone got a pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikesToShoot Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I purchased my M&P Pro 5" for use in Limited / ESP. Unfortunately with 2 different hand loads and 1 factory load all are shooting about 5-6 inches low at 15 yards. Here's my options (I think). - File down the front sight(doesn't seem like a good idea on OEM FO front) - Buy a taller rear (do they even make them?) - Buy an adjustable rear (although it may not be able to adjust low enough, therefore over compensating, making buy taller front) - Screw it, buy a whole new set of sights (I'm cheap!) - Send it back to S&W so they can tell me it groups fine and I just need to aim higher. Mostly I am hoping to get away with only purchasing an adjustable rear. The only problem is... how tall are they? Is anyone willing to measure the height of their adjustable sight at it's lowest setting?? (Stock front sight looks to be about .190" high and the rear is about .245" tall when measured from the back of the slide.) Thanks in advance, Jeremy Not what you want to hear but I'd just bite the bullet and convert to the Dawson adjustable and their matching front sight. Down the road you can get a KKM 9mm conversion barrel and shoot it cheaper in ESP or Limited minor (with 9mm mags). You'll be able to adjust the sights for any load changes you decide to make. My Dawson front is .265" and the top of the rear is .345". When I switch from 40SW to 9mm I turn it down 6 and right 2. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 ...My Dawson front is .265" and the top of the rear is .345". When I switch from 40SW to 9mm I turn it down 6 and right 2. YMMV Great info from all... And I hadn't thought that my conversion barrel (in the mail!) may have a different POI. My tentative plan is this... -wait until my KKM 9mm convo barrel comes in -check POI and if it's similar to stock .40 barrel, then I will purchase a Dawson Precision .150" tall front. -if they are different, then I'll be picking up an adjustable rear (prefer the Dawson) Next question... Anybody have experience or even seen the adjustable Williams Gunsight "Firesight"? http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/pistol.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You might take a look at the Dawson Precision adjustable rear sight for the M&P: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000998-1231195463 If you need more information call Dawson Precision and ask for Daniel. I just put the Dawson adjustable rear and .100 wide FO front on mine and you'll have to use the .305" front (.305 Tall x .100 Wide #021065) which to me is really high and hard for me to get used to. I most likely will go back to fixed rear and a lower front and sell these. Would be great with a suppressor ;') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 ...My Dawson front is .265" and the top of the rear is .345". When I switch from 40SW to 9mm I turn it down 6 and right 2. YMMV Great info from all... And I hadn't thought that my conversion barrel (in the mail!) may have a different POI. My tentative plan is this... -wait until my KKM 9mm convo barrel comes in -check POI and if it's similar to stock .40 barrel, then I will purchase a Dawson Precision .150" tall front. -if they are different, then I'll be picking up an adjustable rear (prefer the Dawson) Next question... Anybody have experience or even seen the adjustable Williams Gunsight "Firesight"? http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/pistol.htm Off the subject sorry... but as I understand the conversion barrels are illegal in IDPA and Production correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I went to a shorter front sight on mine, with the factory rear, I think .02" lower. Dawson swore I was "wrong", but it produces POI right at the top edge of the front blade from 5-20 yards. A bit higher at 30+ yards, but I like that. I can see more of the steel at distance, and then point-shoot close paper. JeffWard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikesToShoot Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 ...My Dawson front is .265" and the top of the rear is .345". When I switch from 40SW to 9mm I turn it down 6 and right 2. YMMV Great info from all... And I hadn't thought that my conversion barrel (in the mail!) may have a different POI. My tentative plan is this... -wait until my KKM 9mm convo barrel comes in -check POI and if it's similar to stock .40 barrel, then I will purchase a Dawson Precision .150" tall front. -if they are different, then I'll be picking up an adjustable rear (prefer the Dawson) Next question... Anybody have experience or even seen the adjustable Williams Gunsight "Firesight"? http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/pistol.htm Off the subject sorry... but as I understand the conversion barrels are illegal in IDPA and Production correct? You are correct in being illegal for Production and SSP but, I WILL be corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't see why you couldn't use a conversion when shooting ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Jeff... You would be wrong (as Dawson says) IF your gun had the correct POA/POI from the factory. But I fear like mine, it is off and there is not much to be done to correct it other than a shorter front sight. Regarding IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, yes conversion makes it "illegal" (but legal in ESP and Limited). The good news is I can load 180gr .40 down to 130 PF with TrailBoss or WST and run stock barrel for SSP or Production. But the bad news is, I don't believe 5" .40 pro is legal for SSP (I could be wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisenhow Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Jeff... You would be wrong (as Dawson says) IF your gun had the correct POA/POI from the factory. But I fear like mine, it is off and there is not much to be done to correct it other than a shorter front sight. Regarding IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, yes conversion makes it "illegal" (but legal in ESP and Limited). The good news is I can load 180gr .40 down to 130 PF with TrailBoss or WST and run stock barrel for SSP or Production. But the bad news is, I don't believe 5" .40 pro is legal for SSP (I could be wrong) It's fine for SSP, it's not (yet) approved for production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Jeff... You would be wrong (as Dawson says) IF your gun had the correct POA/POI from the factory. But I fear like mine, it is off and there is not much to be done to correct it other than a shorter front sight. Regarding IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, yes conversion makes it "illegal" (but legal in ESP and Limited). The good news is I can load 180gr .40 down to 130 PF with TrailBoss or WST and run stock barrel for SSP or Production. But the bad news is, I don't believe 5" .40 pro is legal for SSP (I could be wrong) It's fine for SSP, it's not (yet) approved for production. Under SSP Rules: EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights. 2. Robar style grip reduction. 3. Add-on magazine well opening. 4. Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part it replaces. 5. Seattle Slug Grip Plug and similar weighted products. 20 6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original factory model. 7. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for further information). 8. Checkering and stippling. 9. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal Modifications. Please clarify as this seems to indicate that if your weapons serial number does not match the caliber it was offered in the original factory model then it is illegal. So a conversion from 40 to 9 would be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisenhow Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Jeff... You would be wrong (as Dawson says) IF your gun had the correct POA/POI from the factory. But I fear like mine, it is off and there is not much to be done to correct it other than a shorter front sight. Regarding IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, yes conversion makes it "illegal" (but legal in ESP and Limited). The good news is I can load 180gr .40 down to 130 PF with TrailBoss or WST and run stock barrel for SSP or Production. But the bad news is, I don't believe 5" .40 pro is legal for SSP (I could be wrong) It's fine for SSP, it's not (yet) approved for production. Under SSP Rules: EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights. 2. Robar style grip reduction. 3. Add-on magazine well opening. 4. Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part it replaces. 5. Seattle Slug Grip Plug and similar weighted products. 20 6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original factory model. 7. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for further information). 8. Checkering and stippling. 9. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal Modifications. Please clarify as this seems to indicate that if your weapons serial number does not match the caliber it was offered in the original factory model then it is illegal. So a conversion from 40 to 9 would be illegal. I read it that he was planning on shooting his M&P 40 Pro with 40 loaded minor, not using a conversion barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Jeff... You would be wrong (as Dawson says) IF your gun had the correct POA/POI from the factory. But I fear like mine, it is off and there is not much to be done to correct it other than a shorter front sight. Regarding IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, yes conversion makes it "illegal" (but legal in ESP and Limited). The good news is I can load 180gr .40 down to 130 PF with TrailBoss or WST and run stock barrel for SSP or Production. But the bad news is, I don't believe 5" .40 pro is legal for SSP (I could be wrong) It's fine for SSP, it's not (yet) approved for production. Under SSP Rules: EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights. 2. Robar style grip reduction. 3. Add-on magazine well opening. 4. Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part it replaces. 5. Seattle Slug Grip Plug and similar weighted products. 20 6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original factory model. 7. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for further information). 8. Checkering and stippling. 9. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal Modifications. Please clarify as this seems to indicate that if your weapons serial number does not match the caliber it was offered in the original factory model then it is illegal. So a conversion from 40 to 9 would be illegal. I read it that he was planning on shooting his M&P 40 Pro with 40 loaded minor, not using a conversion barrel. Right, for SSP I would shoot the stock .40 barrel with light loaded ammo. For ESP, I would shoot the 9mm conversion barrel. Thanks for the clarification (wrong info on my part lol) on M&P Pro 40 being able to be used in SSP but not in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Jeff... You would be wrong (as Dawson says) IF your gun had the correct POA/POI from the factory. But I fear like mine, it is off and there is not much to be done to correct it other than a shorter front sight. Regarding IDPA SSP and USPSA Production, yes conversion makes it "illegal" (but legal in ESP and Limited). The good news is I can load 180gr .40 down to 130 PF with TrailBoss or WST and run stock barrel for SSP or Production. But the bad news is, I don't believe 5" .40 pro is legal for SSP (I could be wrong) It's fine for SSP, it's not (yet) approved for production. Under SSP Rules: EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights. 2. Robar style grip reduction. 3. Add-on magazine well opening. 4. Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part it replaces. 5. Seattle Slug Grip Plug and similar weighted products. 20 6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original factory model. 7. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for further information). 8. Checkering and stippling. 9. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal Modifications. Please clarify as this seems to indicate that if your weapons serial number does not match the caliber it was offered in the original factory model then it is illegal. So a conversion from 40 to 9 would be illegal. I read it that he was planning on shooting his M&P 40 Pro with 40 loaded minor, not using a conversion barrel. Right, for SSP I would shoot the stock .40 barrel with light loaded ammo. For ESP, I would shoot the 9mm conversion barrel. Thanks for the clarification (wrong info on my part lol) on M&P Pro 40 being able to be used in SSP but not in Production. I was not meaning to imply anything I was just inquiring as I too was considering a conversion 40 to 9 barrel or a 9 to 357 and was not sure what I could do with them per the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikesToShoot Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I was not meaning to imply anything I was just inquiring as I too was considering a conversion 40 to 9 barrel or a 9 to 357 and was not sure what I could do with them per the rules. FYI: 40 or 357 sig to 9 mm listed but nothing for ".. a 9 to 357" . http://www.kkmprecision.com/custom_pistol_barrels/home.php?cat=39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I was not meaning to imply anything I was just inquiring as I too was considering a conversion 40 to 9 barrel or a 9 to 357 and was not sure what I could do with them per the rules. FYI: 40 or 357 sig to 9 mm listed but nothing for ".. a 9 to 357" . http://www.kkmprecision.com/custom_pistol_barrels/home.php?cat=39 OOOPS Typed that wrong meant 40 to 9 or 357. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well, I've had the KKM conversion barrel for a few days now (bore has a mirror sheen and is well finished in general) and I just received the 9mm mags... Hopefully I can get to the range soon, to test the poi on the new barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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