JetPow Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Benelli, Remington, Mossberg, FNH all equipped with XRAIL Systems or Firebird Precision AKDAL MKA1919? What would you pick for shooting Open division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Neither I recommend an R&R Saiga. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I don't have enough strength to hold up a shotgun with an X-Rail.If you are strong enough, the Remingtons seem to run better with an X-Rail,and are the softest shooting than some of the other brands I've seen. The biggest issue with a Remington is that it is a gas gun, and needs to be kept clean, and lubed, but, the Firebird is also a gas gun, and appears to need the same attention. I have a JP 1100, open shotgun, with a tube big enough to start with 14, and it has served me well, but, I've been drawn over to the dark side, and just had my Firebird delivered last week. I'll actually have to take the two out together, and run some drills, on the clock to see which one I can be faster with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerguy Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) R&R saiga !!!! Edited July 7, 2012 by rangerguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 X-rail says that on the Benelli it may or may not run and to use heavy loads. i have a Versa Max that has been doing well that will be my open shotgun for the 3 gun nation pro/am. the barrel just seems to get a lot dirtier than on my M2. which i just had to sell because the AC went out. i too think about the X-Rail but the weight of a box of ammo on the end of the barrel and $700 makes think. with a 24"(was 26) +2" for the brake i can have a +7 nordic tube with the XXL cap and be about flush so that should equal 14 in the mag. so i do believe that the way i will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I run a 26" Versa Max with a +8 Nordic Components tube with the XXL cap. It is many inches past the muzzle. Full size XRAIL on the way. And yes, it will be heavy. I simulated the weight and distribution with properly sized weights strapped to my barrel. If I wanted a shotgun purely for Open 3-gun, I would look at the Akdal or Saiga. And I would be ready for some teething problems early on since they are bleeding edge devices. However, I don't want to make that level of investment. Instead, I want to make my Versa Max a multi-purpose shotgun beyond only 3-gun. I may be making compromises for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmanktm Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I just started open this year with a M2 Benelli that holds 14 with speed loading tubes. I like this because sometimes I Like to shot tactical and with just a few easy changes I’m shooting tactical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I run a 26" Versa Max with a +8 Nordic Components tube with the XXL cap. It is many inches past the muzzle. Full size XRAIL on the way. And yes, it will be heavy. I simulated the weight and distribution with properly sized weights strapped to my barrel. If I wanted a shotgun purely for Open 3-gun, I would look at the Akdal or Saiga. And I would be ready for some teething problems early on since they are bleeding edge devices. However, I don't want to make that level of investment. Instead, I want to make my Versa Max a multi-purpose shotgun beyond only 3-gun. I may be making compromises for that. WOW, at the moment mine has a +6 with a XL cap and with the 24" and extended choke it about flush. if i measured correctly the +7 with XXL cap should be just a inch or so past the brake. i hope so anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 WOW, at the moment mine has a +6 with a XL cap and with the 24" and extended choke it about flush. if i measured correctly the +7 with XXL cap should be just a inch or so past the brake. i hope so anyway. I get 13 in my tube. Looking at the Nordic website and the pull-down menu for the magazine tube extensions, I see the following data: +6 adds 14"-14.4" +7 adds 17.2"-17.6" +8 adds 19.8"-20.2" Then we examine end cap differences: XL cap listed as 3/4" XXL cap listed as 1-1/2" (their notation; not my preference of how to write sizes) I use the factory chokes that came with the VM, so no help there. I have a Briley extended diffusion choke, but have not yet used it. Your +6 and XL cap are adding approximately 15". My +8 and XXL are adding about 21.5". I can get out a measuring tape tomorrow when I unlock my guns and clean them from today's match. Had my first failures with the VM, but I'll be totally highjacking the thread if I discuss it here. I think it's simple maintenance/ neglect problem by me. Anyway, the length differences would seem to be large. I will confirm soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 M1778, thanks for the info, the brake should be here this week and will add 2" i am thinking i was forgetten to add the XXL cap to measrements. it maybe about 3"" longer past the brake, if so i will go back to the standard cap. i am not goog enough with shotgun to worry about 1 shotshell, so i will try to make it LOOK LIKE i know what i am doing. oh the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Depends on how much you want to spend, if money is not a problem you will have a hard time beating an R&R Saiga. Those R&Rs are hard to keep up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 M1778, thanks for the info, the brake should be here this week and will add 2" i am thinking i was forgetten to add the XXL cap to measrements. it maybe about 3"" longer past the brake, if so i will go back to the standard cap. i am not goog enough with shotgun to worry about 1 shotshell, so i will try to make it LOOK LIKE i know what i am doing. oh the truth! My XRAIL should have been shipped today. Time to totally rework my Versa Max configuration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoller Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What is the XRail that people are talking about on the above posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What is the XRail that people are talking about on the above posts? It is a rotary magazine, that mounts below your barrel. You can start with 23-27 rounds. But, you gotta be pretty strong to hold it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat68 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 You really don't need to be that strong to hold it up. Once the timer goes off, you forget all about the weight. I had one on a Benny Hill M2 at Ironman and it ran pretty good on my reloads. I bet if had heavy factory, it would have run better. I had a few jams while there were a lot of rounds in the gun. All were failure of the bolt to close with a round on the carrier. It kind of cool stuffing the tube with neearly a whole box of shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFH Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Here is the website for more info on the XRail.... CLICK HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Jimmie Lambert's shotgun is the only one that runs. In my very limited experience, I did not see one Saiga at Area 2 in my squad that did not fail at least one stage during the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncopenshooter Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Benelli, 13 Round Nordic tube (so 15 in the gun) and a ton of Tec-Loader sticks. Practice and go forth. All the mag fed guns I've seen (except 1 Akdal, and 1 R&R Saiga) jam. So...no mas for me. The Benelli runs and that's more important than anything. Voigt's won a couple of matches with his and Miculek does okay stick feeding. Oh...haven't seen too many of the XRAIL's work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Benelli, 13 Round Nordic tube (so 15 in the gun) and a ton of Tec-Loader sticks. Practice and go forth. All the mag fed guns I've seen (except 1 Akdal, and 1 R&R Saiga) jam. So...no mas for me. The Benelli runs and that's more important than anything. Voigt's won a couple of matches with his and Miculek does okay stick feeding. Oh...haven't seen too many of the XRAIL's work either. My Akdal is ~98-99% with Jim's gen 2 mags and 100% reliable with the factory 5-rounders. With pretty limited practice my standing reloads are well under 2s. Even with 98-99% reliability and a couple of jams (which are feeding issues and quickly resolved by tapping the back of the mag) in a match, I'm still faster overall than I would be loading a tube loader with sticks (assuming 100% reliability). Since it seems to be purely mag related (at least in my case) I'm hoping that the new stronger springs will take me even closer to 100% reliability. Im sure that at some point either Jim or someone else will get the mags figured out, but until then I'll keep shooting it since its still faster and better (IMHO) than the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncopenshooter Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Yours is the 1 Akdal I've seen run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug S Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I have a JP built 1100 with a 12 round tube and it is one of the softest shooting shotguns available, BUT, then I bought my R&R Saiga and it's hard to beat with reloading! 20 round mag change in about 2 seconds. This is the reason my JP is in the classifieds. If you can afford the Saiga from R&R,that is the one to go with. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritzthemoose Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Benelli, Remington, Mossberg, FNH all equipped with XRAIL Systems or Firebird Precision AKDAL MKA1919? What would you pick for shooting Open division? Magazine fed. Its a no brainer. Out of the Box the Akdal but the Saiga is around for longer and has advantages short term as there are not so many options on the Akdal yet. I have a Saiga up and running and will build an Akdal over winter. Base gun is at home already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Benelli, 13 Round Nordic tube (so 15 in the gun) and a ton of Tec-Loader sticks. Practice and go forth. All the mag fed guns I've seen (except 1 Akdal, and 1 R&R Saiga) jam. So...no mas for me. The Benelli runs and that's more important than anything. Voigt's won a couple of matches with his and Miculek does okay stick feeding. Oh...haven't seen too many of the XRAIL's work either. Voigt would probably do well with a 5 round pump. The simple fact is I can start with 21 and reload in 2 to 4 seconds with 12 more without hours and hours of practice on stick feeders. I have seen a lot more speedloader fumbles with stick guns costing people more time overall than Saiga malfunctions. I have figured out my Saiga to where it rarely malfunctions and when it does its usually fixed by just running the action. Ideally someday we will have a mag fed Benelli. Pat Edited August 17, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark45 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 What do mag fed guys do when you have a big stage.. 30+ bird mixed with 6ish slug targets throughout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Change mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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