Wild Gene Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Simple, in Over/Under Shotguns for Sporting Clays, what is the gun to have? The one that when it all boils down to form and function, that one gun that is just hard to beat? I have been reading post after post, thread after thread, country after country and to me, it comes back to one. While it is not everyone's main gun, I find it interesting that the one shotgun that almost everyone says that you can not go wrong with is the Beretta 682 Gold E Sporting with 32" barrels. Interestingly, Beretta no longer makes them. What is anyone using and why? What would you get if given a choice? I am not gonna go dump 30k on a new clays gun, but am thinking about a good used or reasonably priced new gun. What is a good value for the money? WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 It REALLY depends on personal preference and what feels good to you as far as weight/balence. The Krieghoff is heavier and has more weight in the nose than the Beretta and Perazzi which are lighter and more nutral balanced. The Kolar feels more like a beefed up heavier version of the perazzi, beretta with more mass but its more between the hands than the Krieghoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Best value? A Browning. I use a Cynergy and love it, but if I had the means, I'd buy a Citori Sporting, prob the 625. Go with a Kreighoff if you can afford it. All the guns on your short list are fine pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aglifter Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Some of my friends are clays shooters. The older guys run Kolars and Perazzi, the younger ones run Krieghoffs. (I think its a money issue.) Breakage is an issue - I think Krieghoffs require regular replacement of some simple part - firing pins, maybe... Can't remember. Some of them really liked the trigger of one model, etc... It seemed to be, pretty much, they're all good - just get the one you like the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 Some of the new stuff, such as the Blaser F3 Super Sport http://www.blaser-usa.com/F3-SuperSport.1098.0.html are really cool looking guns, but then I wonder about the Mid high rib and am curious if it can create more problems, especially with Sporting Clays. wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipers Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Your post sounds a lot like my thoughts and trying to get the info and decide. Several of my friends use Citori's and have not had any issues with them. I would like to have an expensive one some day but it's not in the cards. O/U's for me are hard to shoot, but feel I should have one for clays. On the affordable side I have looked at the Citori's and FNH-their new one. But for now my cash is going else where, aka Beretta and Benelli semi-auto's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipers Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I have seen and held this model- pretty nice IMO. Some of the new stuff, such as the Blaser F3 Super Sport http://www.blaser-usa.com/F3-SuperSport.1098.0.html are really cool looking guns, but then I wonder about the Mid high rib and am curious if it can create more problems, especially with Sporting Clays. wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Typically the Krieghoffs, Kolar and Perazzi are all in the same range. Krieghoff as well as all the other companies do offer an annual which they go through the gun, change springs etc. It is more for good insurance than anything else and it really depends on how much you shoot. when I shot Skeet with a Krieghoff, I had approximately 200K+ rounds through it without a bit of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 Your post sounds a lot like my thoughts and trying to get the info and decide. Several of my friends use Citori's and have not had any issues with them. I would like to have an expensive one some day but it's not in the cards. O/U's for me are hard to shoot, but feel I should have one for clays. On the affordable side I have looked at the Citori's and FNH-their new one. But for now my cash is going else where, aka Beretta and Benelli semi-auto's. I know what you mean. The Beretta 391/400's are very nice guns, but I am just not into the whole automatic thing. I have a 391 and like it, I shoot it well, but I just can not get into the same rythm that I can with a break action shotgun. It is more of an issue for me in 5 Stand than Sporting Clays. wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 I have seen and held this model- pretty nice IMO. Some of the new stuff, such as the Blaser F3 Super Sport http://www.blaser-usa.com/F3-SuperSport.1098.0.html are really cool looking guns, but then I wonder about the Mid high rib and am curious if it can create more problems, especially with Sporting Clays. wg Does the paddle bug you? For the barrel selector? They seem like a very nice gun, then you see these guys that buy, shoot and sell them. This is way more confusing than the whole Glock, S&W, STi, Custom thing. wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I own several Perazzis, Krieghhoffs and Kolars. The Kolar is the gun to buy in my opinion after years of shooting the guns side by side. The Kolar takes the best features of the Kguns, Perazzi and SO Grade Berettas and combines them into one gun. You will not find a better company to do business with and their customer service is excellent. If you have any specific questions about the guns send me an IM nd I will be happy to reply. The Kolar is also American made. Edited June 30, 2012 by Jaxshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Eku and Jax, Kolar is not one that I really paid any attention to, but looks like a serious consideration. I like the position of the barrel selector. Thank you everyone, wg Edited July 1, 2012 by Wild Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 All of those are good guns, but don't leave out Browning. They have made some great sporting guns through the years, like the Lightning Sporting. I just wish they would stop porting everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 I do not care for ported guns. Does anyone really know what all the numbers mean for Perazzi's? MX 2000/3, MX 2000/8, MX2000S...It is all so confusing. I can't figure it out from the website. wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I've never owned a Beretta 682, but have shot one and they are nice as is the 686 which should be a little cheaper. You mentioned good value for the money, which with O/Us is very subjective and depends on a persons means and expectations - I can say that in my case dropping too much money on a gun would just be silly. I'm a shotgun hack, but enjoy shooting the odd round of clays/skeet and occasionally in skeet or trap leagues. Most expensive shotgun I ever owned was a Krieghhoff kx-5, which is their budget single barrel trap gun. Nice gun, but I shot a Rem 1100 better in trap and ended up selling the krieghoff. For skeet I picked up an old used SKB 600 28" (made somewhere in the late 60's) and have been using that for 25+ years for recreational and league shooting. Not expensive, but well made and reliable (have never replaced a single part on that gun). Same basic gun as the Weatherby o/u's (which were made by SKB). Lately I had been been casually looking for something a little newer and found a decent deal on a used SKB 85TSS sporting gun w/adjustable comb and nice wood in nearly new shape for $1.4k. I thought hard about a Beretta as I like them a lot - but am used to the SKBs, like the way they shoot, and this gun fit me and my wallet so I went with it. No regrets as it shoots great and will serve my purposes for a long time to come. The nice thing about shotguns is there is no single right answer for everybody. I used to shoot skeet with an old timer who used Winchester model 12 .410 and 28 gauge guns. He could break more birds shooting that .410 or 28ga behind his back (literally) than most can from the shoulder. You couldn't give him an O/U, said they were for sissies. Good luck in your quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 In reality, try and shoot some dfferent guns and see what shoots best for you and what you like. They are all quality guns but just depends on what works for you. What works best for me and anyone else might be wrong for you. I like a very muzzle heavy gun and a heavy gun in general. othes like a lighter gun that balances more between the hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 A 682 Gold E is an amazing skeet or sporting gun. I tend to agree with the notion that it is probably the most bang for your buck in competitive shotgunning. I know multipleguys with tens of thousands of rounds through them with zero problems. The K guns are king in the skeet world. there are probably more High overall wins in the last 15 years with Kolars and Krieghoffs than any other shotgun produced. Not enough difference in the two to matter. They are premium guns designed to break clays, and will do that all day long. Just depends on which hat looks better on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipers Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Good info when considering the options out there. It would be nice to have access to try out a bunch before you spend money to see what you like and fit. In reality, try and shoot some dfferent guns and see what shoots best for you and what you like. They are all quality guns but just depends on what works for you. What works best for me and anyone else might be wrong for you. I like a very muzzle heavy gun and a heavy gun in general. othes like a lighter gun that balances more between the hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftnose Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Simple, in Over/Under Shotguns for Sporting Clays, what is the gun to have? The one that when it all boils down to form and function, that one gun that is just hard to beat? I have been reading post after post, thread after thread, country after country and to me, it comes back to one. While it is not everyone's main gun, I find it interesting that the one shotgun that almost everyone says that you can not go wrong with is the Beretta 682 Gold E Sporting with 32" barrels. Interestingly, Beretta no longer makes them. The 682 Gold E is still made. Still on Beretta's website and a quick check on a few dealers' websites still shows them in stock. Mechanically and, as far as durability is concerned, it's hard to beat a 682 Gold E. However, you don't see as many "E" guns as the previous versions as they have gotten much lighter and they recoil more. In 12ga., recoil reduction is key. The 686 Sporing guns are basically the same and much less expensive. It REALLY depends on personal preference and what feels good to you as far as weight/balence. The Krieghoff is heavier and has more weight in the nose than the Beretta and Perazzi which are lighter and more nutral balanced. The Kolar feels more like a beefed up heavier version of the perazzi, beretta with more mass but its more between the hands than the Krieghoff Generally, a Perazzi is a more dynamic gun. HOWEVER, more than any other commonly used gun, a Perazzi can be custom ordered down to the last detail including overall weight, barrel weight, stock dimensions, forend style, checkering style, rib style, beads, bore diameter, choke tubes/fixed chokes, etc.. You can have a Perazzi made that moves however you like and I've shot Perazzis that handle like a pig compared to my Krieghoff. I've also shot 12ga Perazzis with 34" barrels weighing around 8.5 lbs. that you would swear doesn't weigh more than 7.5 lbs. once you got it moving it was so dynamic. My 32" gun is somewhere on the dynamic side of the middle. Kreighoff, for sporting clays, basically has three choices, choke tubes, fixed chokes, or high rib. Even the fixed choke guns tend to be slower and steadier rather than dynamic. Kolar will make you a custom stock but other than that, basically the same as Kreghoff when it comes to customization except they do offer two bore diameter choices. Like Kreighoff, slower and steadier across the board. Some of my friends are clays shooters. The older guys run Kolars and Perazzi, the younger ones run Krieghoffs. (I think its a money issue.) Breakage is an issue - I think Krieghoffs require regular replacement of some simple part - firing pins, maybe... Can't remember. Perazzi, Kreighoff, Kolar all cost about the same; don't make the decision based on price. Kreighoff suggests an "annual" every other year if you shoot a lot. It includes new pins and springs. It costs about $200; I just scheduled my first annual and I've had my gun for three years and I shoot quite a bit. Perazzi, when you buy a new gun, gives you extra pins and springs; they are easily replaced by the user and a whole new set costs, last I bought one about 2 years ago, $190 so there's no real cost difference there. Some of the new stuff, such as the Blaser F3 Super Sport http://www.blaser-usa.com/F3-SuperSport.1098.0.html are really cool looking guns, but then I wonder about the Mid high rib and am curious if it can create more problems, especially with Sporting Clays. High ribs became popular (again) in sporting clays about 3 years ago when Gebben Miles won the National Championship with a Kreighoff Pro-Sporter. Now its all the rage. Personally, I can't shoot one at all. I lose all feeling of being connected to the gun and I have no idea where I'm shooting. I know that Zach Kienbaum, a perennial All-American has basically the same opinion and went back to a flat rib gun after Perazzi tried to get him to shoot one of their high ribbed guns. It's like fiber optic front posts on pistols. Some people like them, others don't. Try before you buy. I have shot Blasers quite a bit and I really like their feel. The way they are made really appeals to me as well. However, they kick like a MULE. Ask any Blaser shooter and they've done something to try to mitigate recoil, whether switch to a lighter shell, some recoil reduction device, or a combination of the two. A Blaser isn't that light but they seem to kick more than they should. The Blaser flat rib guns also feel VERY different than their high rib guns so don't make the decision to buy one only having ever shot the other type. Eku and Jax, Kolar is not one that I really paid any attention to, but looks like a serious consideration. I like the position of the barrel selector. Of all the features of a $10K gun, the position of the barrel selector should be your last concern. My home gun club is about 40 miles from the Kolar factory so we probably have a higher proportion of Kolar guns than most places. That said, you really don't see that many of them. One of my shooting partners does use one and, no joke, he's back at the factory at least once a year with trigger problems. I know it has been back once already this year after causing him to drop out of a tournament with reset issues. I'm pretty sure it went back twice last year. They're really nice looking guns, and they certainly look very stout but I have seen too many problems with them to consider one over a Perazzi or Kreighoff. They certainly have the lowest resale value as well. To me, the Kolar is a hybrid between a Perazzi (receiver with removable trigger, though the Kolar requires a tool), Kreighoff (the barrels with swappable hangers to chance the POI) and a Beretta 68x (the bolting system). I don't know that I agree that there's any Beretta SO-series DNA in the gun. Does anyone really know what all the numbers mean for Perazzi's? MX 2000/3, MX 2000/8, MX2000S...It is all so confusing. I can't figure it out from the website. It's simpler than it seems. TODAY, Perazzi basically makes two different kinds of O/U: fixed trigger, and removable trigger. The MX-8 is removable trigger, the MX-12 is fixed trigger. Everything is basically an upgrade of these. The MX-2000 aka MX-2000/8 is an upgraded MX-8. The MX-2000S is an upgraded MX-12. The MX-2000/3 is an MX-2000 with a three position adjustable high rib. The removable trigger guns have an optional selector. The fixed trigger guns have a selector integrated into the safety much like a Browning. Today, the fixed trigger guns generally have coil springs and the removable trigger guns have leaf springs. However, throw in older guns, and you'll really mix things up, then you get square and round monoblocs, removable trigger with coil springs, fixed triggers with leaf springs: a giant mess! In reality, try and shoot some dfferent guns and see what shoots best for you and what you like. They are all quality guns but just depends on what works for you. What works best for me and anyone else might be wrong for you. I like a very muzzle heavy gun and a heavy gun in general. othes like a lighter gun that balances more between the hands. This is the best advice of the thread. If you're going to spend $10K on a shotgun, you really can't go wrong buying any of the guns mentioned in this thread. The choice will come down to what works best for you. For me, a Krieghoff was the best choice. Just talking shotguns that are suitable for targets, I've got several Browning Citoris and Superposeds, a Beretta 682 and ASE90, a Perazzi MX-2000, several 391s, a Winchester Super-X1, and a couple of Krieghoffs. At the end of the day, the score is just about the same but it's easier for me to shoot that score with the Kreighoff. Of all of these mentioned, I think the Beretta ASE90 is by far the best as far as craftsmanship and quality of materials is concerned. In fact, if it were slightly less dynamic it would be my first choice to use. I'm thinking of having a heavier set of barrels made for it just so that I can use it more. Beg/borrow/steal from your friends as many different kinds of shotgun that you can and shoot them all. $10K is more than a little to spend on a shotgun and you want to have as much experience with them all before you make your decision. Edited July 1, 2012 by leftnose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agusta Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ford Vs. Chevy Vs. Dodge. Porsche vs. Ferrari vs. Lamborghini. Mercedes, Vs. BMW Vs. Audi. The only way to decide is shoot them all yourself and look for the best deal. They're all great guns. Just to make things more difficult you can also add Caesar Guerini and Zoli. Then figure out what length barrels; 28, 30, 32, 34 maybe then what type of ammo; Winchester, Remington, Kemen, Rio, Mirage,Estate, Fiocchi, Gamebore? You've got your next 5 years taken care of right there. FWIW I own a F3, 682 and 525 and have shot the K-80, K-20, MX-8, MX-2000 and Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting. Would buy and shoot any one of them in a heartbeat and won't make a single bird difference in how I shoot between any of them. Personally I love the looks of any Perazzi and the K-20 but don't like the bulky looks of the K-80 though I think it and cockroaches will be the only things that survive a nuclear war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I own a Beretta 682 Sporting shotgun that is fairy old. My dad gave it to me. It is in great shape. I also own a Browning Superposed Skeet which is over 60 years old and still shoots great. I have shot the Browning more than the Beretta so there is a bias for which gun is better for me. I am learning to shoot the 682. it is a good gun. Browning is a good gun. Between the two, the quality is very similar. Both will last a lifetime. They are at the bottom end of what I would spend on an O/U. They each fit me a little differently. I can adapt to the Beretta, which I am slowly doing by shooting a lot of skeet with it. If you are going for the big bucks, then you really need to try a variety of guns for the initial feel. We had a Blaser F3 for about $3K in a local shop. Great gun and great price. But the gun just did not mount well for me. The reason==it was not fitted to me! So I passed it up. Probably not the smartest move. The real key in a big buck gun is to spend the money to get it fitted. No sense in having a $6K-13K gun that is not fitted to you. Like with pistol shooting the real key is good instruction and rounds down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangram Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I am satisfied with my 682 Gold E Sporting 32". (Still on Beretta's web site on July 1.) By the way all the letters in the description are important an Optima barreled 682 moves differently from the older 682s. If you haven't done so already get yourself out with your 391 and shoot every gun you can get your hands on. I did this with squad mates at local matches. After the match was over many shooters generously let me shoot their gun with my factory loads. And yes, I think you already have a great sporting gun that won't hold you back at the highest levels. Get it fitted, shoot it much take lessons... you probably already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Wow, busy day! I had shot trap several years, did very well. Got into Cowboy Action and sold my good gun (a Ljutic Dynatrap). I actually was Cowboy Trap Champion for the Northwest Regional CAS match one year (only year I entered it). I won that using my Win '97 that is cut down to 18.5" with a Modified tube in it. I guess one thing that tells me is that I would probably like a more "dynamic" gun. My Ljutic was smaller than the standard Mono gun, and the '97...well it was nothing like the Lefevre's everyone else was shooting. Thanks for all the thoughts. I did find a 682 Gold E Sporting to try out, and I am gonna go bug all the 5 Stand guys. I am thinking this would be that great reason to go to Italy...go try out a Perazzi! I may not end up with a custom gun, but I will head up to Polson MT with what ever I end up with for lessons and a stock fitting appointment with SSStocks. wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpGunGuy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 As others have said, they are all good guns. I have been shooting clay targets for 15 years, and the most common mistake is buying a different gun to get a better score. IMHO the priority is first fit (if it doesn't fit, it is like having pistol sights that don't match POI), next is instruction, and then practice the technique with a gun that fits. Regular lessons with a good coach will save you wasted ammo and frustration. Free advice (you're behind it), is the most expensive thing at a gun club. If you are interested in a Perazzi, they have a factory gun fitter in CA, so you don't have to go to Italy. Talk to John at Pacific Arms. Rick For what it's worth, I've been shooting the same custom wood since 1999, it has been on three different K-80s. Thea great thing about the K gun is you cannot wear it out, you don't need to buy a new one, and the used market is pretty efficient. Robert Paxton of Paxton Arms is a great guy to deal with, with vast knowledge of all the brands you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftnose Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Robert Paxton of Paxton Arms is a great guy to deal with, with vast knowledge of all the brands you mentioned. This times a million. I bought both my K-80 and K-20 from Robert. He makes you happy that he's taken your money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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