45 acp and small primers

[usmc1974]

I would just like to know what sorry S O B came up with this BS. Talk about a pain in the A$$. Been reloading 36+ years now I have sort brass by primer size? Geees louise.

[retarmyaviator]

You are a little late to this party, the discussion has been going on for several years. From what I understand it was first introduced with the NT or non toxic type ammunition.

Some of us like the idea, loading small primer 45 does not require changing out the priming system on some reloaders as in my case a Dillon 650 between caliber changes to or from 9mm or 223.

[usmc1974]

LOL, I didn't want to come to the party at all. This is just the first time I ran into some mixed in a bag of brass I was reloading. That said it takes me about 60 seconds to change out primer tubes. Thanks for the info.. B

[chevyoneton]

Yep, another step in brass sorting. I save it up and load it when I am changing the primer set up anyway. I load mostly small primer and have the 550B set up for .40 S&W most of the time anyway. So, when I am changing to .45 ACP I change everything but the primer feed and load my small primer .45 first. But yes it is a little bit of a pain.

[roostershooter]

It's been going on for nearly 2 years now.

Rule of thumb ... go through your brass and throw all of you speer and federal in a 'cull' pile.

Then go through the 'cull pile' and look for Federal Small Primer pockets and Speer NT (non toxic) brass. Both are small primer pocket.

[GhettoSmack]

Man! I just used up my 2000 reloaded rounds and started another couple thousand. I'm used to getting an occasional Speer small primer casing, but this time 1-of-6 was small. WTF?! They were Federal, Blazer, and a couple Speer. Slowed my reloading pace way down.

There were enough casings for me to consider reloading, but I am not sure if the small primer setup will work with the .45 base plate on my Dillon 660.

From reading the horror stories, i am not sure I want to reload small primer .45's.

[retarmyaviator]

Man! I just used up my 2000 reloaded rounds and started another couple thousand. I'm used to getting an occasional Speer small primer casing, but this time 1-of-6 was small. WTF?! They were Federal, Blazer, and a couple Speer. Slowed my reloading pace way down.

There were enough casings for me to consider reloading, but I am not sure if the small primer setup will work with the .45 base plate on my Dillon 660.

From reading the horror stories, i am not sure I want to reload small primer .45's.

The 650 .45 shell plate will not know the difference. The only change you would have to make is to install the small primer system and be sure to use the small primer tube.

There are no horror stories if you pay attention to what you are doing and sort the brass carefully before you start.

Edited July 2, 2012 by retarmyaviator

[Chet]

I look for small primer 45 brass just so I don't have to change my 650 back and forth. Not that it is all the difficult just an extra step. Sorting is a pain for tired eyes though.

I have not had any issues with small primer 45 and have loaded thousands.

[Retread1911]

I actually like the Small primer 45 brass. I load primarily 9 40 and 223 with only about 4-5K of 45 each year. With over half of those being Small primer. So I put the large priming system in the 1050 less and less. Even when I put another 1050 on the bench I think I will leave it dedicated to small primers.

Retread.

[Agent #1911]

I hate them. I noticed the federal champion loads went back to large primer.

[BillD]

I went the other way. Since I bought a .40 Limited gun this spring, I sold all my LP .45 brass and bought SP .45. Now it's just a tool head change to my 650 to load both .40 and .45. And the SP system seems to feed much smoother than the LP system did.

It's a lot safer to have a LP where you wanted a SP case than the other way around.

I've got the end of a primer follower rod embedded in the ceiling of my garage from it.

[dcmdon]

It's been going on for nearly 2 years now.

Rule of thumb ... go through your brass and throw all of you speer and federal in a 'cull' pile.

Then go through the 'cull pile' and look for Federal Small Primer pockets and Speer NT (non toxic) brass. Both are small primer pocket.

Don't forget Blazer Brass. They're now using small primers.

I don't bother sorting. Its painfully obvious when you get one. The primer doesn't even budge. Not like if you end up with a round with a crimped primer. Much more solid. I just pull them out and throw them in the household recycling when I find them. On the 65o, its easy to pull the shell out.

I look for small primer 45 brass just so I don't have to change my 650 back and forth.

I actually thought of doing this since I loaded more 9mm than anything else. In the end, I couldn't justify buying brass when I get it for free by the bucket full.

How's this for warped logic, I found a used 650 on USPSA.org for $850 with so many spares that by the time I sold all the stuff off in 2 large lots, the press only cost me a couple of hundred bucks, and I got to keep a set of .223 and .40 dies.

So now I have a large primer 650 and a small primer 650.

Edited July 31, 2012 by dcmdon

[retarmyaviator]

I contacted Federal about this last week because I wanted to know what brands they sold had small primers. I asked because if I did buy any new I wanted the small primer type for the reason above I did not want to change out the 650 priming system. I load mostly 9mm on the 650.

This is the response -

"All American Eagle, Federal Range and Target, and Speer Lawman .45 ACP's will be large primers and all Independence, Blazer, Estate handgun and the Champion brand at Wal-Mart will have the small primer."

Edited August 1, 2012 by retarmyaviator

[dcmdon]

Wait, I'm confused. CCI is owned by federal?

[Toolguy]

ATK owns Federal, CCI and a bunch of other name brands.

[Shadowrider]

ATK owns Federal, CCI and a bunch of other name brands.

Yep. If it burns or 'splodes ATK makes it. From small primers all the way up to and including rocket engines for NASA.

[torrpd]

I contacted Federal about this last week because I wanted to know what brands they sold had small primers. I asked because if I did buy any new I wanted the small primer type for the reason above I did not want to change out the 650 priming system. I load mostly 9mm on the 650.

This is the response -

"All American Eagle, Federal Range and Target, and Speer Lawman .45 ACP's will be large primers and all Independence, Blazer, Estate handgun and the Champion brand at Wal-Mart will have the small primer."

I know you got your response from Federal. but I would have to disagree with their statement. At my department we have been using clean fire "CF" Speer Lawman (small primer) at our indoor range for the last 5 years now and just received another shipment. We also use regular Speer Lawman (large primer) when we shoot at an outdoor range. So the their statement is incorrect. They make Speer Lawman in both Large and Small primers.

Edited August 6, 2012 by torrpd

[dcmdon]

So last night I did an experiment. I dumped a bunch of brass on a white towel and did a better than usual job inspecting everything to make sure there weren't any nested 9mm or any other problems.

I dumped it in the hopper and made 100 rounds. In that 100 rounds, I hit 3 pieces of small primer brass. It took me about 10 seconds to recognize the problem, pull the brass and continue where I left off. I'm still on the fence on whether its worth it to inspect each piece for primer size.

Don

[retarmyaviator]

So last night I did an experiment. I dumped a bunch of brass on a white towel and did a better than usual job inspecting everything to make sure there weren't any nested 9mm or any other problems.

I dumped it in the hopper and made 100 rounds. In that 100 rounds, I hit 3 pieces of small primer brass. It took me about 10 seconds to recognize the problem, pull the brass and continue where I left off. I'm still on the fence on whether its worth it to inspect each piece for primer size.

Don

For me it is worth the time. The small primer brass I use in my pistols, the large primer brass is set aside for using in submachine guns.

[purecharger]

My new Dillon Blue Press catalog came yesterday and had a half page letter from a reader who discovered small primer .45 brass the hard way. Said he had a whole stack of primers go off and cause damage to his XL650. I just bought a large box of used .45 brass from a member here and while there wasn't much small primer brass in the shipment, it was still annoying to have to sort, and I think I let a couple slip through

[PJones1911]

If any of you are S&W 625 revolver shooters and use them in competition, there is a large advantage to the small primer 45 brass. I have collected a lot of small primer brass over the past two years and just kept it with the intention of using it at some point. I shoot both at 686 and a 625 in competition. After doing a complete trigger job on both guns, with Jerry Mikulek's help, I was able to have a smooth 6 pound trigger pull on both revolvers. The 686 ignited the primers consistently and reliably every time but the 625 required an 8 pound pull to be consistent and reliable. It dawned on me that the small primer might just be the difference so I loaded up a bunch of 45 with the small primer and set the trigger pull to 6 pounds. It works great so I am now looking to collect more small primer 45 brass for revolver shooting. I am lucky enough to have 2 650 presses, one for small primer and one for large primer so it makes no difference to me which one I load 45 on.

Keep reloading,

Paul

[dcmdon]

Another reason why a small primer .45 would have been better if it was the ONLY kind of .45. But as it is, its a royal pain in the butt.

pjones - I've got 2 - 650s also. one for small primer and one for large. I probably could have gotten away with one 650 if all .45s had small primers.

Most small primer is headstamped either CCI or Federal.

pjones, what brand of primers were you using? Federal?

[retarmyaviator]

My new Dillon Blue Press catalog came yesterday and had a half page letter from a reader who discovered small primer .45 brass the hard way. Said he had a whole stack of primers go off and cause damage to his XL650.

I wrote to Dillon about this episode when that issue of Blue Press first arrived because that guy's letter was the biggest crybaby letter I had read in years of reading Blue Press. In this particular instance only the operator can be blamed and not the brass.

Dillon's response -

The other factor is that it's entirely possible the gentleman who wrote the letter may be violating the Dillon warranty by automating his reloader. THE main reason we VOID the warranty when people add electric motors to our equipment is that the motor can't "feel" when something isn't right.

Edited November 18, 2012 by retarmyaviator

[Bob DuBois]

Alway load using OPB, other peoples brass. Chunked small primer brass for while sticking with the old ways. After thought most of the small primed brass is once fired while most of the large is multi fired. After purchase of a 650 and still loading 45 on a 550 small primed cases might just be the ticket. I don't have a larger primer set up for the 650 but loading small would sure be an easy swap.

Think I'll start keeping the small primed brass.

[retarmyaviator]

One other aspect of SP 45 I like, folks at the range are quick to return it to me. At the last three matches shooters who picked up my SP 45 brass during previous matches handed me small bags of it that had gotten mixed in with theirs.