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1500yd+++ rifle caliber?


landshark45

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Im looking to have a rifle built for 1500yds+ and I want something more than a paper puncher at this range. Options other than 338 Lapua is what im looking at.

1. I want to see if there is other calibers with similar preformance that might be cheaper to reload??

Like .338 RUM or 7mmRUM. Or even .300RUM

2. I want a catridge with enough energy at 1500yds to hit a 200lb whitetail and be effective. Wont be used for hunting but just want the capability of hard hits at long range. Trying to rule out the paper punchers.

Reloading cost is one of my major concerns. Thats why im thinking .338 .30 or 7mm Ultra mag loadings.

Needs a very high BC with minimal wind drift.

Open to any chambering that can meet these requirements and still find components easily. ie. midway or brownells

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Trying to get that much energy at that distance is a rather daunting task. A .50 BMG will do it as will a .408 Chey Tac but I really have to ask why you think you need this? If you are not hunting then terminal energy is not a very good factor for determining the best caliber.

As for "Trying to rule out the paper punchers", unless you are hunting then you are paper punching (or steel dinging) and bullet performance and resistance to wind are the most important factors. Have a look at the ballistics of some of the 6.5mm calibers - you will be amazed at how good they have gotten.

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Getting to 1500yds is not as big a deal as it once was. Learning to read the wind for shots like that is in many ways a much bigger challenge.

Everything is a matter of balancing one thing against another. I am currently shooting a 155gr high BC .308 round that has better terminal ballistics than a lot of heavier bullets. But Hornady has recently added a really high BC 178gr bullet to it's line up and the ballistics on that are pretty impressive. I've had no problem getting on target at 1100yds with the .308 and it's a tactical rifle with a short barrel.

You can make 1500yds with a .308, .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua.

In the smaller calibers the 6.5x284 is a good choice but barrel life sucks.

If you want to stick with calibers based on the .308 case and action, the .243 is pretty good. The .260 has better barrel life than the .243 but the BC is a bit lower. The 7mm-08 is in there somewhere.

The .264 Win Mag belongs in there somewhere as well, but it's also a barrel burner due to the velocity.

This is the sort of topic that can consume pages worth of debate.

Here are a few resources:

Accurate Shooter

Demigod LLC

Sniper Central Forum

JBM Ballistics

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You should look into 7mm WSM with heavy 180 Berger bullets or 190 Cauteruccio's. You will have a very difficult time beating the BC with anything smaller than 240g .30 cals or heavy .338's. The really nice thing is that the 7WSM is a short fat cartridge that is very efficient. Additionally, you get rid of the belt. If you throat for longer vld's you can get better than 7mm Rem mag velocities and use less powder doing it. The other nice thing is that the recoil is much more pleasant than .30's.

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Take a look at Defensive Edge.net Shawn Carlock builds a .338 edge in a conventional bolt along with a new bullpup design and teaches classes on how to shoot it in the mountains. Under 15 lbs so hunting legal in Idaho.

I took Shawns advanced class last summer. Everyone in the class hit a moa target at 2001 yards. At that distance I used Shawn's gun as my .260 gave up long before that. Anyway a 300 gr. .338 has the punch needed at distance to shoot big game effectively.

Shawn is the real deal with an extensive background in hunting, 3gun/sniper competition and Law enforcement. I think he would be a great match for your long range hunting needs.

Carl

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Another option is 30-06, you can load them up pretty heavy and components are very affordable and easy to find. My brother in law shoots a winchester sharp shooter in 06 and is shooting MOA to slightly better then MOA at 1790 yds. (longest shot we can find around here)

Ryan

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When I was younger I used a .30-06 to kill a lot of whitetails in bean fields at long ranges, a few over 1000 yards... But I was young and dumb and didn't think about things like the ethical issues with the bullet's flight time... Even as close as 300 yards, the animal can take a step while grazing and turn a heart/lung shot into a gut shot while the bullet is in the air.

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What about .260 AI?

As I understand it, most of the "improved" calibers are mainly intended to improve the chambering and the stretching of the case. Some are supposed to gain a bit of velocity and accuracy but I'm not sure that the .260 is one of those. Some of this stuff appears to be getting into the "angels on the head of a pin" area.

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Take a look at Defensive Edge.net Shawn Carlock builds a .338 edge in a conventional bolt along with a new bullpup design and teaches classes on how to shoot it in the mountains. Under 15 lbs so hunting legal in Idaho.

I took Shawns advanced class last summer. Everyone in the class hit a moa target at 2001 yards. At that distance I used Shawn's gun as my .260 gave up long before that. Anyway a 300 gr. .338 has the punch needed at distance to shoot big game effectively.

Shawn is the real deal with an extensive background in hunting, 3gun/sniper competition and Law enforcement. I think he would be a great match for your long range hunting needs.

Carl

After doing a lil research on Shawns development in the 338 calibers I'm pretty shure that one of the three .338 calibers will fit my wants 100%. 338 edge or the 338 Lapua seem to be my picks at the moment.

Thanks for the replys

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338 edge or the 338 Lapua seem to be my picks at the moment.

There is a nearly identical discussion going on about this on another forum. I'll tell you the same thing someone else is being told there.

The .338 Lapua is a great caliber but it costs a fortune to feed and the recoil is a beast. Unless you have a very specific NEED to have a lot of energy hitting the target at 1500yds, you are wasting your money. And if you are going to do much shooting at 1200yds and less, you don't need that much of a caliber either. Same goes for the .338 Edge.

It's your money, but consider that few guys shooting competitions at 1000-1500 meters are shooting the .338 Lapua.

You may want to read a nearly identical discussion here.

Edited by Graham Smith
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Getting to 1500yds really isn't that hard anymore with todays components. We have done it with out 6mm's and even stretched it out a little farther than that with them. Because of your requirement of taking game at those kinds of ranges, that really does put you into 338 Edge territory. I say 338 Edge because it outperforms the Lapua and has cheaper components to do so.

Now with that being said, I don't know your skill level, but I can tell you it takes a ton of practice to be effective at 1500yds. This takes shooting. As Carl said, taking one of Shawn's classes is a great start, but even he will tell you that you need to crawl before you walk. My suggestion would be to get a Remington 700 action, and build either a 7RM or 300 RUM. Shoot it until the barrel goes out, then you will have the confidence and skill make the 1500yd+ shots on critters. Not saying the 338 won't do the job at closer ranges, but its way overkill, especially for 200lb whitetail. The 7RM with a 180 Berger actually shoots the same dope as a 300RUM with a 210 at 1K. It has slightly less energy, but the same drop and drift with way less recoil. Our new 7 Rogue with a 180 shoots flatter and less wind than both of them with still less recoil than the RUM. The Edges are the #2 build I do for guys, and surpisingly enough, I have bought a few back because they can't shoot them. To much recoil and blast for them. They end up with a 7mm at that point and are happy as hell. As much as we like the Edge for our style of hunting, we have started using our 7mm's more and more now for the area's we know are going to be under 1k. The Edge comes out when conditions are poor and the ranges are going to stretch out much farther.

Lots of choices out there. Pick one and shoot the hell out of it.

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The 7 Rogue is out new wildcat that is based on a necked down, long neck, blown out 300WM case. It runs 180 Bergers at 3180 in a 27" barrel with a comfortable load, over 3200 with top end max loads. Will be releasing it out to customers towards the end of the year after we run it for awhile. I thought about the RUM case, but its to much volume for the 7mm. It will work with slow powders like US869, but I wanted something that was forgiving and used a temp stable powder. This one seems to do it all. Will run within 50fps a 7RUM and STW (same length barrels) with ALOT less powder.

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I have made hits at 1780 with a 300 wm, and a 300 RUM, 225 Hornady BTHP pills were used in both, as I recall the RUM was 15.1 Mils and the WM was 22.5 Mils, IMHO stick with the 30 cal bullets, there cheaper and easier to find.

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Former shooter, current father, I write this as I attempt to fix a broken plastic piece of c plastic toy....sorry if disjointed.

My past LR shooting is prairie dog hunting. I have a range of options to choose from from 223 in AR's out to a 338/416 Rigby. Some common denominators to success: must have quality glass, must have quality reloading technique, must shoot a LOT, and must know how to estimate distance and wind.

There's a big difference between doing a bunch of shooting in a common area to then calibrate yourself to distance vs. hitting first shot or even first few shots. I think that is an important distinction at these distances. Anybody can walk it in with multiple shots.

Enough generalities, my only experience relative to your original question is with the 338/416 Rigby. Honestly I got a good deal on that rifle otherwise I'd have probably chosen a bit differently. Case prep includes forming dies and neck turning which is a pita compared to the prospect of using quality Lapua brass out of the box with minimal prep. I'm not brave enough to push the envelope with this case and its additional volume. That said it is a good option for somebody that brave.

I would echo those suggesting something in the 7mm to 308 range and the suggestion to make a choice and shoot a lot is the best.

By the way, of my available rifles the one I'd use for LR like that would likely be my 22/6mm.

Good luck!

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I would have to give the .300 win mag the nod on this one. There is a reason a lot of snipers are still using this round. Its a great round and even out that far its enough to kill a blacktail/whitetail at that range. I wouldn't want to push it past that by any means though.

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What about .260 AI?

As I understand it, most of the "improved" calibers are mainly intended to improve the chambering and the stretching of the case. Some are supposed to gain a bit of velocity and accuracy but I'm not sure that the .260 is one of those. Some of this stuff appears to be getting into the "angels on the head of a pin" area.

If anything counts against the .260AI, it'd be the brass is not as strong as other 6.5mms made from other parent cartridges, not your criticism. Even if it's only 5% improved performance, if you're buying a reamer anyway, and it doesn't need to feed in a semi-auto, it doesn't seem to make much sense NOT to go for the improved cartridge.

There are better 6.5s out there, but if the OP is serious about shooting 1500 yards, a hot 6.5 or 7mm is the answer. In 7mm that probably means WSM or .284 Win, but neither of those offer the cheap brass advantage of .260.

.280 Remington might be an option too.

I personally would avoid belted cartridges, but they will the job done. I would pick 7 Mag over .300 WM.

I would have to give the .300 win mag the nod on this one. There is a reason a lot of snipers are still using this round. Its a great round and even out that far its enough to kill a blacktail/whitetail at that range. I wouldn't want to push it past that by any means though.

The reason snipers are using .300 WM is that we didn't want to use a bullet with a metric diameter.

Unless there's a reason for all that recoil and energy, 7mm can do everything .30 cal can do with less recoil.

Many ways to skin a cat, though.

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Thanks Twodown zero. Iv been looking into the 7mm & 6mm since the idea was put up in this thread.

From my previous thought I believe the 7mm mag would be a great choice and def better than the 7mm RUM.

The 7mm Rum doesn't offer enough preformance benefit of the 7 mag with a large increase in powder cost and barrel life.

Also with so many options for very high BC 7mm bullets for reloading this seems to be an excellent choice.

Any new opinions appreciated.

If I pick a 7mm mag what rifle action??? & who's barrel and length of barrel would you guys suggest or choose???

Lets say I would be loading sierra part# 1980 the 180gr .66 G1s in 7mm.

LENGTH OF BARREL IS A NON ISSUE... any length to get max preformance out of the 7mm mag

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I have been watching this thread and for the sake of cost I have narrowed my next purchase down to a Desert Tactical in 300 WM. We have a Range fairly close that is rumored to be putting in a 1,400 yard range and I know that my 308 is not going to be quite enough and the cost of feeding a 338 is way to much. I have spec'd this rifle with a Grizzly Defcon-1 Muzzle Brake that is said to reduce recoil by 65%. The question I have is that I have seen Federal Gold Medal with a 190 SMK but was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on what powder to hand load with and what weight Bullet? A friend of mine said to use a 200 grain as it is not pushed by the wind as much. Some of the Loading Data that I have looked at has psi numbers close to 308 levels so why do people say that this kicks like a mule?

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