michael_aos Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I've been trying to figure out which ammo my AR-15 likes and which ammo my Remington 700P (.223) likes. I'm hoping either Winchester Q3131A or Federal "Lake City". First target is Q3131A at ~250-something (yards / meters) through the Armalite M15A4 last Sunday. Second target is Q3131A at ~300-something (yards / meters) with the Remington 700P. The groups with Federal look nothing like this. Is this pattern "typical" of something? Finger position on the trigger? Wind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Whoa. Gusty winds that day? I assume you are using a scope. Maybe your cheek weld is inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I think we need more info: Have you only shot 11 rounds of the Q3131? What do the other groups look like? If not, shoot a few more groups a little closer that 250/300. If these are truly "strung out" - shots go in sequence - start left and go right or start righ and go left, then I'm inclined to look at barrel heating. I know, strange coincidnce that both rifles would behave so similarly, but, you never know. What is the time interval between shots (did the barrel cool down or continue to heat)? If they don't string (random placement along that line), then I'm looking at wind. What were the wind conditions when these groups were shot? What do the Federal groups look like? Give us the scoop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_aos Posted July 26, 2004 Author Share Posted July 26, 2004 It was windy both days -- especially windy on 7/18. The "strings" roughly correspond with the direction of the wind on those days. I was generally alternating between "X" (usually 10) rounds of XM193 and 10rds of Q3131A. The Federal groups look more like "patterns" -- some high, some low, some left, some right...sort of a shotgun effect. They are generally in the same area of the target (they're left of the bull when the Q3131A is left, right of the bull when the Q3131A string is right). I didn't shoot much Q3131A at distance on 7/18 because of the funky-looking group. Barrel heating & cheek-weld never ever occurred to me. That's what makes this forum so great. Now that I'm saying it "out loud", I'm reminded of some gun / ammo reviews where a particular load didn't perform well if it followed another load -- something about barrel leading / copper-fouling. Could it be something like that? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Now that I'm saying it "out loud", I'm reminded of some gun / ammo reviews where a particular load didn't perform well if it followed another load -- something about barrel leading / copper-fouling. When I am testing differnet loads I bring along the BoreSnake and run it down the barrel between loads. Not so much that I am worried about fouling from one or the other but if I am going to compare accuracy or velocity between loads, then the gun should be in the same condition at the start for each one. Also,I try the initial tests at 100 yds. If I cant get 3-5 shots inside 1" at 100 then at 200 they will not magically get togeather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Wow! I don't usually check this forum. There can be a bunch of different things from shooter to gear for this one. Looks like: a) Parallax issues mirage fooling you c) shooting during different winds Solutions for these are: a) Check your parallax setting. Make sure your cheekweld is consistent as someone already mentioned (your eye needs to be in the same place all the time, and make sure you are getting a full sight picture). Watch the mirage - it can make the target appear to be in a different place c) Shoot only when the wind is the same. Have your spotter call wind for you, using a meter. Most of all, testing a load on a windy day just doesn't work too well. Wind is great for practice - I like shooting in wind, but I don't work up loads in wind. Get up early - there usually isn't any wind at dawn. There is SO much more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Did you figure this out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_aos Posted August 3, 2004 Author Share Posted August 3, 2004 No. I'm hoping to play with it a little more tonight. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Bullet weight? Muzzle velocity? Barrel twists? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_aos Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 Bullet weight? Muzzle velocity? Barrel twists?Rich 1:9" twist, 55gr bullet. Didn't measure MV. I'm going to try and play with them tomorrow. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieboy Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Michael, if you are still have problems with horizontal strings check and see if your trigger finger is dragging wood. Make sure the back part of your finger is not touching the stock when your finger is on the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray S. Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Using flags does wonders. If you don't want to buy a set, flagman's tape on a stick is better than nothing. Remember the wind closer to you has more effect than wind at the target, etc. I was at a match once where the wind was switching in three or four different directions between gun and targets, and then went almost straight up at target distance. Unusual, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 make sure you are not "cheeking" the gun. Shoot a group w/o your face on the stock & see if it is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine shooter Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I've been trying to figure out which ammo my AR-15 likes and which ammo my Remington 700P (.223) likes. I'm hoping either Winchester Q3131A or Federal "Lake City".First target is Q3131A at ~250-something (yards / meters) through the Armalite M15A4 last Sunday. Second target is Q3131A at ~300-something (yards / meters) with the Remington 700P. The groups with Federal look nothing like this. Is this pattern "typical" of something? Finger position on the trigger? Wind? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bad Shooting. Nah that was too easy. Wind. At 100 yards looks like at your widest your over 10 clicks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobjrl76 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 how long are you taking between shots ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Without being there, it looks like barrel heating, not enough cooling time, need to free float the bbl, and the wind....if you are using a sling, it might compound the problem...Just first glance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_aos Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Both barrels are gone. I had the M15A4 barrel replaced with a JP & free-float tube. The 700P in 223 Remington was transformed into a 260 Remington with a Lilja barrel. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Both barrels are gone.I had the M15A4 barrel replaced with a JP & free-float tube. The 700P in 223 Remington was transformed into a 260 Remington with a Lilja barrel. Mike So, still have the same problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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