How many people use factory rifle ammo?

[MarkCO]

Hand-loads sound like the way to go, but for .$30 / it doesn't make sense to load...especially if your doing match-play <100yds.

-jb

I am 0.17/round for 55 fmj and 0.29 for 68/69s. I RO a few matches and get some brass, pick up certs for bullets when I can and watch for sales and i can drop those prices considerably.

[Ten-X]

Thanks for the responses. Anyone have any thoughts on xm193 versus other 55 grain factory ammo or is it simply testing each brand / weight ammo and seeing what your rifle likes?

Other question - it seems reasonable (and cost effective) to use whatever is cheapest for short distance targets and save the good stuff for longer range, but how do you plan for it during a match? Necessitate a mag change whenever there are longer range targets? Seems like a lot of thinking during a stage, especially when the brain turns to mush after the buzzer goes off!

I've tried so many loads in my gun and found that the gun does prefer heavier bullets but the improvement is pretty negligible, especially for 3 Gun. I am now shooting XM193 for everything out to 200 yards. The gun with those bullets at that distance groups 3" and I don't think it is worth the cost to get more accuracy. I always take along some hand loaded 77 grain Sierra matchings and use them for longer shots but given that you are breathing hard and shooting from an unstable platform, there are so many other things affecting where the bullet hits. Im not sure it is worth it, unless you are at the top of your class where everything is worth it. I'm glad that surplus ammo got me to 1.5 MOA accuracy and I can roll along.

[Cap]

Thanks for the responses. Anyone have any thoughts on xm193 versus other 55 grain factory ammo or is it simply testing each brand / weight ammo and seeing what your rifle likes?

Other question - it seems reasonable (and cost effective) to use whatever is cheapest for short distance targets and save the good stuff for longer range, but how do you plan for it during a match? Necessitate a mag change whenever there are longer range targets? Seems like a lot of thinking during a stage, especially when the brain turns to mush after the buzzer goes off!

XM193 has been banned from Ironman due to the effect on steel but it is allowed at other matches. I'm currently using American Eagle Tactical AE223 because Cabella's had it for about $280 a thousand. On a stage with short and long targets I'll load up my longrange stuff and if I have a known number of short targets first I'll put in the 55s for those targets. Otherwise I just shoot the good stuff at all the targets so I don't have to think about ammo during the stage. I have seen guys that change mags between the expensive and cheap ammo during a stage but that's too much monkey motion for me, I would rather use too much good ammo than worry about saving a few dollars and screw up the stage.

Doug

I'm familiar with M855 and related steel core ammunition not being welcome at most matches, but the lead-only M193 family is a problem? Is the lead a harder alloy than some commercial loads? I don't shoot it, but am keenly interested in how it is different from other 55 grain FMJ loads that would make it unwelcome at Ironman because of effects on steel. Thank you very much.

-- Mike

I think it has to do with the velocity of the round. MGM says it pits the steel and will not allow it at the Ironman match. You can call Travis to get the answer if you are interested.

Doug

I can't speak for Travis, but velocity and diameter have a lot to do with steel damage. Higher velocity & small diameter generate a lot of heat at the impact point. This heat tends to wash away the steel. I have some MGM mini poppers that I have hammered with Surplus .308 ball out of my 20" AR10 and 22" M1A at 100yds (and out) with no ill effects (I have wailed on them with Wolf .223 bi-metal jacket W/O damage also). I shot one of them with some Greek surplus 30-06 out of a 24" M1 Garand @ 100yds and damaged it noticeably. Velocity makes a difference.

Hurley

That Greek surplus 30-06 from CMP is steel core. It's not an AP or even a penetrator round like ss109, but it is steel cored. That probably has more to do with the damage on steel than anything else.

[doubleforte78]

Wolf 55 gr cheapo bulk inside 100 yards

Hornady Steel Match 75 gr past that.

[leemoe83]

AR15.com has a poster name Molon who has done some very detailed testing of the majority of the cheap 55 gr. and the military surplus ammo. He shoots the ammo out of different rifles, and also has testing on match ammo as well. Some guns will group the cheap stuff well, but the majority of AR 15's do not shoot the cheap stuff very well, you lucky if your getting 2 MOA. 3 MOA is probably more average. His posts are in some of the FAQ threads, you don't need to be a member to look at them.

[ronzrx]

I shoot american eagle black box for anything 200 yards or less hand loads 69 grain bullet for over 200 yards I agree PMC ammo does not chronograph what it should

Edited June 13, 2012 by ronzrx

[shooterbenedetto]

Major match all factory black hills...plinking, walmart stuff but I stay away from wolf.

[Alaskapopo]

I shoot ball reloads inside of 100 yards. I use my match reloads at 100 and out. The reason I use it at 100 is our matches use pesky poppers a lot which are small (4 moa at the shoulder at 100 yards) and my ball is generally 2.5 to 3 moa which is not enough margin of error. Basically I use ball for paper targets.

Pat

[Mark Stephens]

I shoot PMC Bronze for hoser stuff and 77 gr Nosler's for everything else.

[loneranger04]

I've been running the cheap American Eagle .223 55 gr factory ammo and it shoots well however we had to shoot at USPSA targets at 300 meters last weekend (5 head and 10 body shots) and I was left wanting for some better ammo. I think that I'll buy some heavier bullets and load some good stuff for the long range shots.

[maka]

Sellier & Bellot 55 gr Bulk for shorter distances and practice. Sellier & Bellot 52 gr Sierra MatchKing HPBT for accuracy. In .223...

[dchang0]

PMC is clean and accurate but anemic, I had to shoot MG Nationals 2011 for no score because my PMC went sub-minor at chrono. I had plenty of Black Hills 69 SMK for long range but submitted the PMC for chrono. A word to the wise, it tested at 149.3 when 150 was needed. First squad in the morning, later may have passed with higher ambient temperatures.

Man, that sucks. If you had a way of warming up the rounds (like snipers leaving rounds in the sun), it would've passed.

To the OP: try using a pair of yoked mags. One mag has the cheapo rounds and the other has the expensive rounds. On longer stages, you'll likely be working mag changes anyway, so this way you only have to focus on "left mag" or "right mag" to know which has which. You can also use color-coding to make things even easier to keep track of in a yoked-mag setup.

Most of our stages are designed to have hosing short range targets first (to get the heart rate up), followed by long range, so I start with cheapo rounds in the right-hand mag. That said, there have been stages where I purposefully start with the match rounds in the left-hand mag, then switch to the right for the rest of the stage.

[65goat]

I usually shoot Winchester White Box, Federal Gold medal match or Hornady TAP.

[CJW]

Mostly use Georgia Arms 69gr Sierra Match King .223Rem. I have found that Black Hills remanufactured 69gr SMK shoots more or less the same as the Georgia Arms (a little lower velocity) but groups much tighter. GA Arms has been fine out to 300yds so far.

On the other hand, I have been saving a lot of brass, so at some point I will start reloading with 69gr, too.

[SteveT-NV]

I like to keep things simple so I've taken a bit of a different route and handload all of my .223 with 55 g Hornady VMax. It's more expensive than the FMJ's, though less than 69 SMK. The accuracy is excellent in my rifle( ~ 0.6 MOA). I like the simplicity of reloading every bullet the same and using the same ammo on every stage. It has been accurate for me out to 600 yds, performs well in the wind and activates all reactive targets without problem (at least so far).

Steve

[michael1778]

I like to keep things simple so I've taken a bit of a different route and handload all of my .223 with 55 g Hornady VMax. It's more expensive than the FMJ's, though less than 69 SMK. The accuracy is excellent in my rifle( ~ 0.6 MOA). I like the simplicity of reloading every bullet the same and using the same ammo on every stage. It has been accurate for me out to 600 yds, performs well in the wind and activates all reactive targets without problem (at least so far).

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for sharing that. I had been wondering if anyone would consider exactly that course of action. Once I started learning about the physical details of bullet performance I came across the Vmax line and got to pondering. If you don't mid sharing, what brass, powder and primers do you typically use?

Thanks Again,

Mike

[SteveT-NV]

I like to keep things simple so I've taken a bit of a different route and handload all of my .223 with 55 g Hornady VMax. It's more expensive than the FMJ's, though less than 69 SMK. The accuracy is excellent in my rifle( ~ 0.6 MOA). I like the simplicity of reloading every bullet the same and using the same ammo on every stage. It has been accurate for me out to 600 yds, performs well in the wind and activates all reactive targets without problem (at least so far).

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for sharing that. I had been wondering if anyone would consider exactly that course of action. Once I started learning about the physical details of bullet performance I came across the Vmax line and got to pondering. If you don't mid sharing, what brass, powder and primers do you typically use?

Thanks Again,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Don't mind sharing at all. Before I started reloading I was shooting Federal AE and kept all the brass so I had around 2000 rounds of this saved up. These are now on their 3rd time around through the gun.

Powder is 24.6 g of Ramshot Exterminator

OAL - 2.25

MV ~ 2990 fps

Primers CCI No 400 - I've also used the CCI BR-4, Federal and Winchester and haven't noted any significant difference. The BR-4 gave the most consistent MV, but not enough to be significant.

Rifle - 18 in JP SCR11

Give 'em a try, I don't think you will be disappointed.

Cheers,

Steve

[Lead-Head]

Grace Ammo:

55 gr fmj hornady bullet in LC brass. 2900fps. 1-1.5" groups at 100yrds in my 18" match rifle.

Shoots very clean and reliable.

[Trail3]

Have been using PMC 55 Bronze for the stuff under 150 yds. Black Hill 262 77gr. Seconds for the long range.

Matches my Burris XTR BDC out to 400. Still trying to work up a hand load to match the Black Hills.

[BayouSlide]

I've always been happy with XM-193 for hoser stuff, otherwise Prvi Partizan 69 gr match. Have the components and dies but still haven't got around to loading my own .223...guess when the present supply of factory is almost used up, I'll have the motivation I need to start.

Curtis

[MattYvip]

I shoot federal speer 64 grain for almost every match (I use hornady 55 grain practice ammo or fiochi to save cost)and out of a factory LMT I'm getting sub half MOA for a 5 round group at 100 meters. But I also get the 64 grain stuff for dirt cheap and don't have the reloading set up yet...

[promod1385]

I use cheap Tula for practice ammo.

My match ammo is all handloaded 55gr FMJ (Montana Gold) with TAC and CCI Primers. Costs me $.175 per round (using range pick up brass).

[Les Snyder]

S&B 55 grain matched the BDC of my TA01 with reticle for 55grain, and would shoot 4" at 400m with my 16" RRA upper...I did have to hold about 16" of wind hold off on the 400m MGM flash target at Ft Benning in 2010,... I just put on a TA31F, and hope the 62grain reticle will be close, if I measure distance in yards rather than meters... just haven't worked with it that much... shot Wolff at Area 6 and didn't have any trouble

[gose]

To the OP: try using a pair of yoked mags. One mag has the cheapo rounds and the other has the expensive rounds. On longer stages, you'll likely be working mag changes anyway, so this way you only have to focus on "left mag" or "right mag" to know which has which. You can also use color-coding to make things even easier to keep track of in a yoked-mag setup.

Most of our stages are designed to have hosing short range targets first (to get the heart rate up), followed by long range, so I start with cheapo rounds in the right-hand mag. That said, there have been stages where I purposefully start with the match rounds in the left-hand mag, then switch to the right for the rest of the stage.

If the stage starts with close stuff, I'll have just enough 55s in the mag for those targets and 69s after that. If the stage starts with long range I'll most likely shoot the whole stage with 69s.

For my spare mag(s) on my belt I use FDE for 69s and black for 55s.

I only use handloads, but prices on components seem to have been rising faster than wolf/tula, so I'm considering switching to steel crap for practice...

Edited June 29, 2012 by gose

[pjb45]

I think I used Federal American Eagle 55 stuff for everything at SSM3G this year. Even long stuff.

I have a bunch of LC hand loads with 69 SMK and 2850 fps for RM3G this year.

All this is out of a Sabre Defence barrel with a Taran Butler brake. I get sub MOA out of this barrel with my hand loads.

If I get my new JP Vltor built in time, I will take it. I might need a new scope for it.