Big Bullets in Small-Bullet Divisions

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

I've heard some accomplished shooters suggest that a .40 is a slightly better choice for SSP or ESP than a 9 mm, if you reload, because the felt recoil will be less at the same power factor/floor, and the slightly larger-diameter bullet will help marginal shots score higher.

Taken to its logical extreme, this has me wondering if anyone's out there shooting .45 in SSP or ESP. A 230-grain bullet would only need to travel at 550 fps or so to make power, right? Heck, is anyone hand-loading a .50 for competition?

[SirLoin]

Love the question. I've read a lot of shooters here say heavier bullets are better, though others have written the opposite, i.e., the lightest bullets lead to the least muzzle lift, allowing faster splits.

Will check out folks' replies to your post.

[Craig N]

From page 28 of the rule book

The goal is to compete with “service type” ammunition, not light

target ammunition. Therefore, the following minimum power

floors will be in effect:

SSP - 125,000

ESP - 125,000

CDP - 165,000

ESR - 165,000

SSR - 125,000

Calculate power floor by multiplying the bullet weight by the

muzzle velocity. You will need a chronograph to verify muzzle

velocity.

So wouldn't downloading the 40 or 45 to puffball levels be a FTDR?

[The_Vigilante]

I don't think so. Until the IDPA makes a rule stating that .45 ACP and .40 S&W are not legal for SSP both calibers shoud be good. Of course, that's my opinion and YMMV

[motosapiens]

I shoot some 40 and some 9. Obviously the part about 'service ammo' is a bunch of bs because the power floors are all well below what real service ammo does these days, except maybe for 115gr 9mm. They've decided that 125pf is 'service ammo', so loading your 40 or 45 to that level is fine.

I shoot alot of 40 because I get the brass free from work, and the larger shells are just easier for me to work with. I guess I'm clumsy. Anyway, to get the same pf, i have to use about a couple tenths more powder in .40. I presume this is because the larger surface area of the bullet creates more drag in the barrel, but it may also be due to varying bullet types (moly/lead/plated are faster than jacketed).

Bottom line is I don't think I can tell any significant difference in recoil. I admit, I haven't shot each gun carefully back to back trying to detect any difference. Frankly, after shooting a few uspsa matches with 40 major ammo, I think recoil is worried about more than it needs to be.

One other thing to consider, I have read that some folks find accuracy is worse with lower-velocity loads. Certainly the bullet spends more time in the barrel, so it will be more effected by your own flinches or movement.

I am hopeful that IDPA will figure out a way to encourage the use of america's most popular practical real-world defensive caliber in their game, perhaps by simply allowing them into cdp with the same 8-round limit that other 45's have. Til then I'll keep shooting my .40 in ssp and uspsa production.

[Mr. B]

I shot .40 in SSP for a year before I switched to 9mm for economic reasons. I did like the bigger holes in the paper, it helped me see my hits better when I wasn't able to call them very well (like on movers). A flat point .40 makes a much easier to find hole.

I would be thrilled to be able to shoot .40 at a 165 power factor in CDP. I found that my Glock 22 ran best at above 145PF anyway.

[Jim Watson]

I shoot some .45 ESP, usually with a 200 at 650 or so; although I have some 185s that I am adjusting to around 700.

Adequate accuracy, soft shooting, and the big holes get me an extra point every once in a while.

I have lost a lot of recoil tolerance over the past few years and this lets me keep the .45s running and not have to drop down to 9mm. I don't own or want a .40 so that discussion is academic.

[RePete]

I sometimes shoot SSP with my G35 and ESP with it and the STI Trojan in 40S&W. The PF of my ammo is 149000 because that PF will run the Trojan whereas lower will not, and I'm not going to play with recoil spring. FWIW The G35 run perfectly with a PF of 138000.

[hkguy]

its all personal preference to me. with practice any bullet weight/recoil impulse can be mastered. I prefer 124gr bullet in 9mm at about a 133-135 PF, some like 147's and others like 115's. One CDP shooter i spoke with preferred 185 SWC over 200gr SWC or 230gr ball....

then you run into potential cycling issues with those down loaded mouse farts.

[jmorris]

Before ESR existed a 230 @ 550 fps is exactly what we did in SSR. You could watch the bullet on it's way to the target. I also used those loads in an officers model for BUG matches. There is nothing cheaper to shoot than 9mm, unless you want to use the same gun for both IDPA and USPSA where adjusting your 40 loads for the game is cheaper than two guns.

Edited May 31, 2012 by jmorris

[ProGunGuy]

I've shot 9mm/40/45 all in the 135-145 pf in SSP. all of them out of MP's. the best finishes I had were with the 40 and 45. I came 3rd overall in the last match that had 80 shooters using my MP40 pro shooting 143pf ammo.

in my area, the CDP guys shooing their 1911's usually rule the top 5 roost. Its the Indian, not the Arrow most of the time that matters.

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Does anyone shoot .45 GAP in competition? (I only recently realized that it didn't qualify for CDP.)

[jason237m]

Does anyone shoot .45 GAP in competition? (I only recently realized that it didn't qualify for CDP.)

Some guys used to shoot GAP ammo in their ESR (.45 ACP) guns but since IDPA changed the rules to say that the caliber used must be stamped on the gun, I think GAP has pretty much vanished.

Edited June 1, 2012 by jason237m

[Cd662]

So wouldn't downloading the 40 or 45 to puffball levels be a FTDR?

A competitior downloading a 40 or 45 but having it make the power floor is within the rules. Your asessment of "service type" ammunition is very subjective. The whole point of the power floor system is to have a discernable manner of objectively deciding what ammo is OK to use and what is not. Should we ban everyone in SSR division right now for shooting 105 PF instead of 357 Magnum hollowpoints? I don't understand why people want to give an FTDR for everything.

[19852]

I've used a downloaded .40 in competition and so have many others. Your gun may not function reliably with downloaded .40 so it may require modification [mine did]. I can recall the question coming up several years ago. Matt Mink did some experimentation and found that the minor .40 had much to offer. His conclusion was that it didn't warrant switching from minor 9mm to minor .40. If it was a advantage to shoot minor .40 , the USPSA production guys would probably be doing it.

However, if you like .40 and your gun works with it then what's not to like?

[GMB]

I shoot a .40 XDM 4.5 in ESP and really like it. I use one bullet for both major and minor and it has worked well for me so far. The recoil is soft and I like the fact that the hole is a little bigger tha a 9mm.