Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
AznDragon533

How to do a fast Reload?

Recommended Posts

Slide reload every time using the slide stop. The gun will auto forward but I'm not training on something that may or may not happen. I am training on something that I know I can control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I one want to really control the process...run the slide with your off hand on the reload. (slow but sure)

Over the years, I have had a least 2 instances at matches where my slide had auto-forwarded without feeding a round into the chamber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and NEVER use the slide stop for anything but locking the gun open. I mean ever.

??? :huh:

You read that correctly; autoforward or power stroke. Training scars or well trained-- you be the judge. :blush:

I guess results vary, 13 years of shooting this and I've ALWAYS used the slide stop, never the over the top method where I chew up my hand on the rear sight.

and this is the first time on all those years were I've heard the term "autoforward" for the slide closing when you slam home a mag. I guess I need to get away from the west coast more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. Yeah you're absolutely right, I bungled that one about as hard as it could be bungled (and the next one!). And a gun that would 100% autoforward would have completely precluded that from ever happening, AND taken away a couple of the 6 or so seconds I lost that stage by.

This is a software problem for me though. I'm horribly inconsistent at pretty much everything and it would be wrong, IMO, for me to pursue a hardware fix for it. The better I learn to be consistent at one thing, without mechanical aids, the better off I'll be learning to be consistent at things that can't be improved through equipment. I think pursuing hardware solutions to software problems makes us overall weaker shooters.

Now, if I ever find myself in a legitimate hunt for a national title, I think that would be the time to start doing things like running a lighter trigger, and adopting this theoretical 100% autoforward doohickey. At the level I'm at right now though, I think it would just compromise my ability to learn.

:cheers:

I'm sold on the technique-- but it's a low priority right now, for many of the same reasons you're talking about.

I figure if I never shoot the gun to slide lock, it's a non-issue-- so better spend time working towards that, as it helps in a much broader spectrum of circumstances!

On top of that... my 9 Pro loves to autoforward. I had 2 slidelock reloads in Mississippi last weekend, and on video, they're impossible to tell apart from speed reloads. In fact, one might have been the fastest of the match...

It'll definitely be something I look into correcting down the road, though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I one want to really control the process...run the slide with your off hand on the reload. (slow but sure)

Over the years, I have had a least 2 instances at matches where my slide had auto-forwarded without feeding a round into the chamber.

Now that's one that has never happened to me, and I've autoforwarded this gun a lot with 10 different magazines.

You have, of course, shot a lot more than me-- and this gun is only 7 months and ~30k+ rounds old... And obviously, I'm not working from slide lock super-often!

Is the support hand the common method? Playing around with it since we began this conversation, I swear that my weapon hand is much more up to the task. For a long, long time there, neither my Glocks nor M&Ps would even go into slide lock because of the grip. (That corrected itself randomly without conscious effort-- although the extra flip of my M&P 45 FS still prevents it from locking back 90% of the time.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the years, I have had a least 2 instances at matches where my slide had auto-forwarded without feeding a round into the chamber.

At first I nodded and thought, me too, but then I realized I've never had the slide auto-forward without feeding a round. I've definitely released the slide too early, and I've seen plenty of other shooters release the slide too early, but I don't think I've ever seen the slide auto-forward without feeding a round. Did the mag go in hard and bounce out before the slide could strip off the top round?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the years, I have had a least 2 instances at matches where my slide had auto-forwarded without feeding a round into the chamber.

At first I nodded and thought, me too, but then I realized I've never had the slide auto-forward without feeding a round. I've definitely released the slide too early, and I've seen plenty of other shooters release the slide too early, but I don't think I've ever seen the slide auto-forward without feeding a round. Did the mag go in hard and bounce out before the slide could strip off the top round?

Can you "autoforward" The gun with out a magazine? So all you have to do is bump the gun wrong and the slide goes forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen rounds pop out of the magazine as it was inserted, and exit the gun through the ejection port, and the slide not chamber the next round.

Seen rounds come out of the magazine and tip up, causing a nice "stove" pipe with a live round.

Seen rounds pop out of the magazine, NOT leave the gun, and cause a nice double feed.

Seen another one that came out, and ended up backwards in the chamber.

...all done by people trying to induce this slam charge that's being called "autoforward" here. It's not consistent enough to count on happening 100% of the time, so practicing it is frowned upon around here (in my line of work). Be aware that it can happen, but practicing it is bad news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen rounds pop out of the magazine as it was inserted, and exit the gun through the ejection port, and the slide not chamber the next round.

Seen rounds come out of the magazine and tip up, causing a nice "stove" pipe with a live round.

Seen rounds pop out of the magazine, NOT leave the gun, and cause a nice double feed.

Seen another one that came out, and ended up backwards in the chamber.

...all done by people trying to induce this slam charge that's being called "autoforward" here. It's not consistent enough to count on happening 100% of the time, so practicing it is frowned upon around here (in my line of work). Be aware that it can happen, but practicing it is bad news.

I'm going to take a not-so-wild stab in the dark and say that your issue weapons are Glocks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone review this video for me? Is it auto fowarding or slide lock , Start at 0.20 second

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone review this video for me? Is it auto fowarding or slide lock , Start at 0.20 second

Neither.

Not sure if that was an honest question or an attempt at being clever... :wacko:

I highly doubt we could watch any video and tell the difference, aside from one created specifically to illustrate it. (I.E. close up, high definition, ridiculously high speed video.)

Now... I can watch my own and tell you. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen rounds pop out of the magazine as it was inserted, and exit the gun through the ejection port, and the slide not chamber the next round.

Seen rounds come out of the magazine and tip up, causing a nice "stove" pipe with a live round.

Seen rounds pop out of the magazine, NOT leave the gun, and cause a nice double feed.

Seen another one that came out, and ended up backwards in the chamber.

...all done by people trying to induce this slam charge that's being called "autoforward" here. It's not consistent enough to count on happening 100% of the time, so practicing it is frowned upon around here (in my line of work). Be aware that it can happen, but practicing it is bad news.

I'm going to take a not-so-wild stab in the dark and say that your issue weapons are Glocks?

Fairly wild stab... no :)

H&Ks

What I see on a daily basis...

Magazine is brought up to the gun, started into the mag well, then a hesitation as the arms/hands are loading up for the big slam into the weapon, then finally, the actual shoving of the magazine into the gun. My experienced guess is that 75% of the time, this results in a successful slam charge or "auto-forward". The majority of the other attempts result in the slide staying locked open. The shooter, then raises the gun back up, and slams it down into the palm of their weak hand to send the slide forward (which has also caused several malfunctions, including nose diving into the bottom of the feed ramp, and compressing the stack of rounds down into the mag as the slide misses it).

All the while, it would have been a more positive action (and consistently faster) to smoothly insert that mag and send the slide home and not count on the malfunction of knocking the slide off the stop.

While it certainly can happen while the adrenaline is going, and it's good to know what it is if it does happen, it's just bad practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone review this video for me? Is it auto fowarding or slide lock , Start at 0.20 second

Neither. If you look closely, the slide was not locked back, so it is not auto forwarding nor hitting the slide lock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The additional force required ro get the gun to autoforward is slowing your reload down.

Trust me when I say this, You cannot move at super speed and super force at the same time. Choose one...choose wisely :ph34r:

Oh, and eventually your M&P will fail to strip a round. It has happened to everyone I know that relies on it, almost always in a match that matters. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone review this video for me? Is it auto fowarding or slide lock , Start at 0.20 second

Neither. If you look closely, the slide was not locked back, so it is not auto forwarding nor hitting the slide lock.

good point...forgot to watch for that...

a dumb question but.

If there are 6 targets (need 2 shots in target) and you have 10 rounds, would you rather:

A. shoot 9 rounds, then speed reload and shoot 3 more rounds

or

B.shoot 10 rounds, slide lock back, reload and shoot 2 more rounds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The additional force required ro get the gun to autoforward is slowing your reload down.

Trust me when I say this, You cannot move at super speed and super force at the same time. Choose one...choose wisely :ph34r:

And if you don't believe this truth of human physiology, look up the force-velocity relationship of muscles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The additional force required ro get the gun to autoforward is slowing your reload down.

Trust me when I say this, You cannot move at super speed and super force at the same time. Choose one...choose wisely :ph34r:

Oh, and eventually your M&P will fail to strip a round. It has happened to everyone I know that relies on it, almost always in a match that matters. <_<

All of my reloads are too forceful, then-- I don't change a thing about it whether the slide is open or closed. (At least not consciously, or I'm not aware of it... Hmm...) I'll have to look into that... Maybe I am muscling up when I know the bump is required...

I'm generally curious as to whether or not I can even seat a mag at speed without autoforwarding. If what you say is true, and my gun isn't as special as I am (hardy-har), I might be screwed either way without elventy-jillion reloads to correct the damage I've apparently already done...

Now to something important-- put a trigger into my back up gun? :D Plllleeeeeaaasssseeee! :bow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just thought about this a bit more, as I was reading up on the subject that seancswife suggested. (Interesting stuff-- Bruce Lee would have lost his mind.)

Completely un-practiced, whatever speed I may be losing by exerting extra force is completely negated by the extra time it would take me to release the slide stop and reacquire my grip. (You'll have to trust me on that one!)

I wonder, though-- does that still hold true for those who have mastered the slide lock reload? I think we can all agree that sweeping the lock takes at least SOME time away from the reload-- even if it's measured in hundredths of a second, as Donovan suspects. So how much time do you lose on the reload by giving it a little extra umph? (It doesn't take much on my gun to get the slide to autoforward, as previously noted.)

When I get around to practicing the proper slide lock reload, I'll test it on the timer and see... Otherwise, we'd need someone who's accomplished at speed reloads, slide lock reloads, and autoforwarding-- something of a contradiction in the last two, it would seem.

In the meantime, enjoy 2 slide lock reloads with autoforward from my last match-- @ 2:53 and 3:17. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now to something important-- put a trigger into my back up gun? :D Plllleeeeeaaasssseeee! :bow:

give me two weeks to run this section macth then I can get you in. :cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now to something important-- put a trigger into my back up gun? :D Plllleeeeeaaasssseeee! :bow:

give me two weeks to run this section macth then I can get you in. :cheers:

You're the man! So glad I posted something stupid and got everyone's attention! :roflol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can all agree that sweeping the lock takes at least SOME time away from the reload -- even if it's measured in hundredths of a second, as Donovan suspects. So how much time do you lose on the reload by giving it a little extra umph?

How much longer does a slide-lock reload take than a speed reload? Isn't the real time issue that slide-lock reloads are forced on you, often at an inopportune time? Sweeping the lock and waiting for the slide to come forward takes time, but it overlaps with the time it takes to press the pistol back out and onto the (next) target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer the original question on this thread, I talked with Travis Thomasie at SHOT and asked him how he got so fast (equipment-neutral, as he demos using a gun with a fatty magwell). He told me he did/does a bunch of reps at half or 3/4 speed, to make sure he's imprinting the movements in his habit patterns. So, when he speeds up, he's used to doing the steps necessary to do it consistently at speed--because he's practiced it so much and emphasized consistency for long-term potentiation (how's that for a Magpul line steal?).

On the "autoforward" issue, I shoot Single Stack and can get the gun to autoforward about 75% of the time. Having said that, I rarely shoot to slide lock, unless my plan melted down and I'm doing an unplanned reload. On my XDm, I can do it 100% of the time. However, because of how I grip the gun, I almost never (99%) shoot to slide lock, because my weapon hand thumb almost always keeps the slide lock lever from locking the slide open.

"Autoforwarding" is all about how you hit the gun, not just about how hard you do it. Generally, if your hand is moving at a 45-degree angle when your magazine seats, it jars the slide stop enough to trip the slide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, because of how I grip the gun, I almost never (99%) shoot to slide lock, because my weapon hand thumb almost always keeps the slide lock lever from locking the slide open.

i've talked to only one other XDM 5.25 owner and we both do the same thing. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you make two for me. I've had the discussion with a guy I shoot with regularly (he shoots Production almost exclusively), and his XD (he's shooting a 9 Tactical) does the same thing--because of his grip. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...