X-5 back from Gray Guns

[Joe L]

I have learned to do some trigger work on the SIGs myself, but, the work Gray did on the single and double action pulls on my X-5 was super. I don't think I can duplicate what they did on my X-5. I have my other SIGs pretty close, but I am not quite there yet. I have ordered a Power Custom sear and hammer jig which should allow me to better control what I'm doing on the SIG parts. When I get those tools, I'll experiment some more and see where I am. I am pretty sure Gray isn't experimenting any longer on the SIGs--they already know exactly what to do, so, yes, send it to them but be prepared to be without your gun for twice as long as they tell you.

Perhaps people with experience with other shops will chime in as well. Gray is the only shop I have any experience with.

I am going to do my own trigger work from now on, just to save calendar time and money and to retain control over the final product. I don't think I will be able to get as good a result as Gray, however, but I won't be without my gun for 4 months either.

Joe

[Joe L]

I've put the X-5 aside until I can have Gray take another look at it in September at a class I am attending. My new SSE is excellent and 100% reliable and easier to handle in an IDPA event so I see no reason to use the X-5 at this point. I have done enough work on my P226 guns myself to get the trigger creep and weight just the way I want it. I use a 17lb hammer spring and the Gray Guns reduced power sear spring, trim the hammer hooks slightly and polish the sear and hammer surfaces as well as the trigger bar. Has worked well on 4 frames.

The barrel and slide fit on my particular SSE is as good as my Bar-Sto barrel alloy gun and my X-5, so accuracy is excellent. Maybe next year for my X-5.

Joe

[Joe L]

I think Gray Guns has continued to work on the extractor issue SIG created in the X-5 guns. I haven't bothered to send the gun back since I would rather just wait until they think they have a final solution, so my X-5 AA is in the safe. I have about 7k rounds through my SSE and it is 100% reliable and very accurate, so I am sticking with it until the X-5 extractor is resolved. My X-5 gun is good except for the extractor. But my standard P226s are what I am shooting every week now.

Joe

[JAFO]

Joe,

I'm considering going to an all-steel gun for Production. Although I've recently seen that the 226 Xpress that was released in Germany, I know very little about it, and have been pondering either a 226 SSE or an X5. As I already have 226 fire control parts from GGI in my current carbon/alloy 226, I was planning on swapping them over if I got an SSE. What are your thoughts on the differences between the two, considering you have both?

[Jaxshooter]

I have an X-5 Allround that I have not experienced any problem with so far. I do not shoot reloads in it only factory ammo. I also clean up the gun after every range session. I do not completely tear the gun down to clean it. Usually I just clean the topend around the extractor and chamber area. I would like to know what mods Joe L made to the extractor for reliability in case I have a problem in the future.

[Higgins]

I sent my X-5 All Around to Gray Guns to be lightened to 43 oz. and some action work on the trigger. Got the gun back and have put about 300 rounds through it. So far, so good. I still have to get used to it as I have put about 6000 rounds through a CZ 75 since sending this one off.

This was from today after work. I shot many groups like this one from 25 yards, good, for me.

Joe L

Those are nice looking guns. I live in Abilene and we do not have any local matches. I may have to go to one of your IDPA matches so I can see them in person! I plan on shooting in Lubbock this Saturaday.

[Joe L]

Joe,

I'm considering going to an all-steel gun for Production. Although I've recently seen that the 226 Xpress that was released in Germany, I know very little about it, and have been pondering either a 226 SSE or an X5. As I already have 226 fire control parts from GGI in my current carbon/alloy 226, I was planning on swapping them over if I got an SSE. What are your thoughts on the differences between the two, considering you have both?

JAFO--I would not get an X-5 for a game gun if I could get an SSE. I still shoot both the alloy frame gun (that you have shot) and the SSE (that I was shooting in San Antonio) each range trip, but I always return to the SSE, simply because I like the weight. I think the weight is what you should consider as the deciding factor. All three of my SIG game guns (alloy, SSE, and X-5) will shoot under 1.5" at 25 yards. I suppose the X-5 has an advantage with the longer barrel and sight radius at 50 yards. The shorter guns are easier to draw from a holster and easier to move from target to target for me.

Faster game shooters than me like a lighter gun. I like a 42 oz gun with a 4.4" barrel. I have several. The SIG SSE is my favorite. I haven't shot the X-5 in months.

Borrow a 42 oz gun and see how you like it. Borrow a 5" barrel gun and see how you like it. That reminds me, the X-5 is too heavy for IDPA ESP and won't fit the box for SSP because the beavertail is too long. I modified my frame to fit the IDPA box and finally got it under the IDPA weight limit but the extractor is still a deal breaker for me. An SSE meets all the requirements without butchering the frame. Another big plus. For Production, my understanding is that an X-5 All Round can be used without modification so the IDPA limitation may not be a consideration for you.

Joe

Edited March 15, 2013 by Joe L

[JAFO]

Joe,

I'm looking at it mainly from a USPSA point of view. There are a few IDPA matches around, but I've only attended one of them. It was bit shorter than a USPSA match, but there was a LOT less shooting. There are three USPSA matches here every month, so there's more opportunity there. And if I did want to shoot IDPA, I still have my 229 and 220ST (unless I sell the 220ST to help fund an X5 ).

I don't know anyone locally who has a 226 SSE, but the guy on my Tx Open squad who was using the X5 belongs to one of the local clubs, so I may be able to contact him and try that one out.

The other variable is that I'll be trying out a 147gr lead load in the near future, which will have a different recoil impulse than the 124gr MG load I'm using now. That difference may remove a lot of the snap I'm currently experiencing. At that point, even an alloy Elite with a stainless slide may work fine for me.

[Obsucrem]

Joe,

I'm looking at it mainly from a USPSA point of view. There are a few IDPA matches around, but I've only attended one of them. It was bit shorter than a USPSA match, but there was a LOT less shooting. There are three USPSA matches here every month, so there's more opportunity there. And if I did want to shoot IDPA, I still have my 229 and 220ST (unless I sell the 220ST to help fund an X5 ).

I don't know anyone locally who has a 226 SSE, but the guy on my Tx Open squad who was using the X5 belongs to one of the local clubs, so I may be able to contact him and try that one out.

The other variable is that I'll be trying out a 147gr lead load in the near future, which will have a different recoil impulse than the 124gr MG load I'm using now. That difference may remove a lot of the snap I'm currently experiencing. At that point, even an alloy Elite with a stainless slide may work fine for me.

My Alloy/Carbon 226 loves my 147 Rainier reloads (127-130PF or so). Gun still has more flip that other platforms I've shot competitively (Glocks mostly) but I definitely wouldn't call it snappy. Sights seem to return flat very quickly.

[Joe L]

JAFO--I'll loan you mine when I get the extractor upgraded, if you think you can still run Production with it. It looks stock, but it has had the frame lightened and the beavertail and trigger guard trimmed. It really is an IDPA ESP gun. It also has the plastic mag well grips, but I could change those before sending it to you. Not sure when I'm going to send it to Gray for the extractor. I'm serious, you can shoot it for a month or so if you want.

Joe

[JAFO]

Joe,

I appreciate the offer. I'm attending a local match this Sunday where I know there's a shooter with an Allround. If he's there, I'm going to beg/bribe him to let me shoot his gun side by side with mine. The truth of it is, though, I visited my local Sig dealer yesterday, held and looked over an X5 Competition model he had in stock, and asked him to order an Allround for me. He has no idea how long it will take to get here, so that gives me plenty of time to line up all the stuff I need to sell to pay for it!! I just hope the price he gave me is still valid. With the new X-Series being announced, I have no idea what will happen to prices on the current X5 models. For that matter, I don't even know which model I'll actually get, although I imagine the new X-Series Allround is still a ways out. If I truly don't like the Allround after this weekend, he said he can cancel the order.

He had a MK25 on the shelf, and I was able to compare the X5 Comp to it for feel and heft. Heft is definitely the word, but I think I'll get used to the increased weight. I really do like the feel of the beavertail on the X5, and I will probably move my aluminum grips over from my 226. The rear sight is wider than I like, and I'd probably get it dogeared or dished out like the Warren Sevigny Competition rear. I've never tried a black blade front sight, so I don't know how I will like that, but it seemed pretty wide. There was very little light on either side of it on the Comp model. I currently have a 0.125" Dawson FO, and I'll likely swap to that as well.

Edited March 21, 2013 by JAFO

[spd522]

Joe,

I appreciate the offer. I'm attending a local match this Sunday where I know there's a shooter with an Allround. If he's there, I'm going to beg/bribe him to let me shoot his gun side by side with mine. The truth of it is, though, I visited my local Sig dealer yesterday, held and looked over an X5 Competition model he had in stock, and asked him to order an Allround for me. He has no idea how long it will take to get here, so that gives me plenty of time to line up all the stuff I need to sell to pay for it!! I just hope the price he gave me is still valid. With the new X-Series being announced, I have no idea what will happen to prices on the current X5 models. For that matter, I don't even know which model I'll actually get, although I imagine the new X-Series Allround is still a ways out. If I truly don't like the Allround after this weekend, he said he can cancel the order.

He had a MK25 on the shelf, and I was able to compare the X5 Comp to it for feel and heft. Heft is definitely the word, but I think I'll get used to the increased weight. I really do like the feel of the beavertail on the X5, and I will probably move my aluminum grips over from my 226. The rear sight is wider than I like, and I'd probably get it dogeared or dished out like the Warren Sevigny Competition rear. I've never tried a black blade front sight, so I don't know how I will like that, but it seemed pretty wide. There was very little light on either side of it on the Comp model. I currently have a 0.125" Dawson FO, and I'll likely swap to that as well.

I hadn't heard of the new X series. Anything majorly different in them or do you know?

Craig

[JAFO]

Craig,

Check out this thread: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/7500039613/p/1

And watch the video posted by yoky about halfway down the first page.

There are some cosmetic differences, but they're splitting the X-series off from the 226. There will be three levels: Classic, Match, & Supermatch. In each level there will be three lengths: X-Short, X-5, & X-6. There will also be an entry level base gun, the Xpress. It's mentioned that any of the guns can be upgraded with various parts, but it's not clear whether that would include upgrading the Xpress (which is the same length as the X-Short) to a longer slide. But they also have a new rail system that allows for a couple of modular accessories to be used (barrel weights, Open sight mounts).

[Joe L]

JAFO--I agree on the sights. I put a Dawson Precision on mine, but I need a wider one. I'll fix it when the extractor is fixed. I certainly like the weight of the gun, so I hope you like yours. The internals are interchangeable with the standard P-226 so you could move your parts over and try it if you want. My X-5 had a bad trigger bar when I got it, and I put one from another gun in it. Can't wait to read what you think when you get it. If I get mine fixed before you get yours, let me know and you can still shoot mine for a while.

Joe

[JAFO]

Joe,

I may have plenty of time to wait. I just heard from my FFL that his distributor is being told not to place orders for the X5's right now. Hopefully it's just a short delay while they update part numbers for the new X-Line. I called Sig to ask about it, but Customer Service had not been told of any delays or holds. The guy I spoke with did say I'd probably have about an 8 month wait, though. I suppose I can deal with that, especially if I end up with one of the X-Line Allrounds. But I also hope that the new part number doesn't come with a shiny new higher price tag.

[JAFO]

Joe,

All is not lost!! Turns out Sig has just outsourced their X5, X6, and Mastershop guns. The new distributor even has an Allround in stock!!

Of course, that means I have to pay for it much sooner than I originally thought...

I'll let you know how I like it once it gets in.

[JAFO]

Looks like I got a little too excited. The distributor only has Competition and Lightweight models in stock, so there will be a wait involved.

[Joe L]

JAFO--You need to update this thread with what you think about your new gun now.

Joe

[JAFO]

It is the old style X5, not one of the new X-Line Allrounds. I admit it would have been nice to have the wood grips and 3.5oz less weight, but the old style lines are nicer.The test target group was 1 1/8" at 25m, which I'm assuming was shot in single action, because the DA pull on this gun is HEAVY. It stacks quite a bit, and I think it's heavier than my 642 was when new. I dry fired it quite a bit and it seems to be stacking a little less (or my trigger finger is getting stronger ). Hopefully with continued dry firing and use it will get a lot better.

The SA pull, however, is really very nice. It's not as light as my GGI 226 trigger, but there's NO creep. Just building pressure ont he trigger until it breaks clean. I like it!

I've only put about 150 rounds through it so far. I'm still waiting for a holster from Bladetech and a set of G10 grips from Hogue before I can start using it in matches. But what I've experienced so far was pretty good.

Edited April 6, 2013 by JAFO

[Obsucrem]

It is the old style X5, not one of the new X-Line Allrounds. I admit it would have been nice to have the wood grips and 3.5oz less weight, but the old style lines are nicer.The test target group was 1 1/8" at 25m, which I'm assuming was shot in single action, because the DA pull on this gun is HEAVY. It stacks quite a bit, and I think it's heavier than my 642 was when new. I dry fired it quite a bit and it seems to be stacking a little less (or my trigger finger is getting stronger ). Hopefully with continued dry firing and use it will get a lot better.

The SA pull, however, is really very nice. It's not as light as my GGI 226 trigger, but there's NO creep. Just building pressure ont he trigger until it breaks clean. I like it!

I've only put about 150 rounds through it so far. I'm still waiting for a holster from Bladetech and a set of G10 grips from Hogue before I can start using it in matches. But what I've experienced so far was pretty good.

Congrats! Sounds similar to the trigger on the one I handled - can't wait for it to get here.

[Sigke]

I just got an X5 Tactical and love it. Will prolly send her to Gray Guns to have the trigger lightened and possibly a set of Trijicon HD night sights. The sights that came on her are fine but, I, would like them a bit brighter. Btw, can anyone please tell me what the #7 represents on the front and rear sights? Thx fellas!

[JAFO]

Sig sights are numbered. The owner's manuals used to have a listing of the actual sight heights for each number, but they don't do that anymore. This is from the regular 226 manual:

There are different height combinations available

for the front and rear sights. The sights are

numbered according to their height. You can

change elevation by changing either the rear or

front sight. It’s easier if you change the rear sight

first.

There are six rear sight heights available. Each rear

sight change will move the impact of the bullet

approximately 2” at 25 yards.

There are five front sight heights available. Each front sight change will move the

impact of the bullet approximately 1” at 25 yards.

When changing sights, remember this rule: NUMBERS UP, GROUPS UP; NUMBERS

DOWN, GROUPS DOWN. This is true for both front & rear sights.

[JAFO]

Here's a chart some enterprising person over on SigForum put together for the various possible sight combinations.

[Sigke]

Wow. Thx guys! Btw, Im all lined up to send my x5 Tac to Gray Guns. Gonna have the trigger set to 2.5- 3 pounds. And, have a set of the Trijicon HD night sights put on. They really,really like the Trijicon HD @GrayGuns.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Sigke

[JAFO]

My G10 Piranhas arrived yesterday!

Here's my current Production gun, a carbon slide 226 with checkered aluminum grips, next to the new X5 with G10's.

Now I'm just waiting on Blade-Tech to send my holster.