Cheesewhiz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 1100fps isn't enough to shed a Berry's copper plate, probably an over crimp. An over crimp with MG's will also cause terrible accuracy, back off on your crimp is what will help in either case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 1100fps isn't enough to shed a Berry's copper plate, probably an over crimp. An over crimp with MG's will also cause terrible accuracy, back off on your crimp is what will help in either case. Nope, not over crimping. Mouth of the case is barely touching the bullet. I'll also add that I have been using a lot of 5,000 WCC once fired brass. First time through for the brass and nothing was changed on my 1050 press. The only thing that changed was a new lot of Berry's bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not necessarily on MGs...one time, I loaded up some and had not adjusted my crimp die correctly and found it was smashing the brass. I still went out and shot them and the accuracy was fine. Not as good as normal but still better than most. I think Doug C or someone like that who knew a lot more than me wrote one time about tight crimps and accuracy being decent with the right load. Here is a post on here about a tight crimp and decent accuracy... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135687 Please don't interrupt this as me advocating tight crimps or anything, I'm just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesewhiz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 That's strange as heck, I've loaded a ton of Berry's HB bullets and pushed them on occasion to 1300fps+ and never had an issue with copper shedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesewhiz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not necessarily on MGs...one time, I loaded up some and had not adjusted my crimp die correctly and found it was smashing the brass. I still went out and shot them and the accuracy was fine. Not as good as normal but still better than most. I think Doug C or someone like that who knew a lot more than me wrote one time about tight crimps and accuracy being decent with the right load. Here is a post on here about a tight crimp and decent accuracy... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135687 Please don't interrupt this as me advocating tight crimps or anything, I'm just saying.... Your posted link is a hard cast lead bullet thread, not a soft lead jacketed or plated bullet. Over crimping a soft bullet cuts accuracy and with a plated bullet can lead to other issues such as shedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I'm also interested in your test results. I'd like to try MG as well - I just don't like having to buy 1,000 of them as a "test". I called to ask if they sell smaller quantities so I could try a few of their different bullets before I buy a case or two. Nope - minimum is 1000. Seriously? Do you only shoot matches and just dryfire practice in between? If you don't like them, and you have a 1000 of them, just shoot them for practice. sheesh. I just bought 2500 bullets that I didn't know if I'd like... They seem ok so far (and cheaper than zeros), but for now I'm going to practice with them and shoot zeros in the matches, and spend the savings on beer and hookers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not necessarily on MGs...one time, I loaded up some and had not adjusted my crimp die correctly and found it was smashing the brass. I still went out and shot them and the accuracy was fine. Not as good as normal but still better than most. I think Doug C or someone like that who knew a lot more than me wrote one time about tight crimps and accuracy being decent with the right load. Here is a post on here about a tight crimp and decent accuracy... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135687 Please don't interrupt this as me advocating tight crimps or anything, I'm just saying.... Your posted link is a hard cast lead bullet thread, not a soft lead jacketed or plated bullet. Over crimping a soft bullet cuts accuracy and with a plated bullet can lead to other issues such as shedding. Ok, smarty pants I found the original post I was referring to, it's Darryl and Doug mostly discussing it a few years back. Very interesting thread... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=116023&st=0&p=1316889&hl=+crimp%20+accuracy%20+doug&fromsearch=1entry1316889 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesewhiz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Smarty Pants? Interesting thread, thanks. Darrel is a sharp dude, I've lurked his stuff for quite some time. He does mention it being a slight adjustment and I agree depending on the bullet used. I do rant about over crimping a lot because I see it a lot, especially with 9mm. I never can understand why someone would work so hard at getting the right bullet, the right load, the right length and then crimp the living bejesus out of it. There are some who think because they are using a metal jacketed bullet, that watching out for over crimping isn't all that much of an issue, it is and the softer the swaged base, the more that care should be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackdr1ver Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) TBCDoubletap: I can't really see anyone not liking Montana Gold's quality. They have always done really well out of all my guns and they come in at a very competitive price point. I agree with some of the other's at $100-ish/k it's not too hefty of an investment and if on the off chance you don't like them they will be excellent for practice. Try em out! Edited May 9, 2012 by tackdr1ver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErichF Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 My last purchase of 3750 124JHP was $325. That's only $86/1000. I was getting Precision Delta and Armscor 124FMJ for the same price per thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 That's strange as heck, I've loaded a ton of Berry's HB bullets and pushed them on occasion to 1300fps+ and never had an issue with copper shedding. I know. And I'm not MF'ing the company or the product. Still have a bunch on the bench and may continue to use them in other calibers. But for the 9mm I did order a case of the MG 124gn CMJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 BTW, I meant to stress that I am using a Storm Lake barrel with a 1:16" twist. OEM is 1:18.75". Could the thin plating be giving way due to over spinning? Don't know but thought I would mention it. Not loosing any sleep at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesewhiz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) That's strange as heck, I've loaded a ton of Berry's HB bullets and pushed them on occasion to 1300fps+ and never had an issue with copper shedding. I know. And I'm not MF'ing the company or the product. Still have a bunch on the bench and may continue to use them in other calibers. But for the 9mm I did order a case of the MG 124gn CMJ. mcracco, I load a lot of different bullets just for fun, curiosity or trying to get to another level of whatever I think may be important at the moment. I buy Montana Gold in case lots, 3000 to around 10,000 at a time. I also load different make lead, Berry's, Zero's, Hornady's and Wins. If I had an extended issue with any bullet I would stop using it for awhile and revisit it at some other time. You learn by doing sometimes and it should be fun. Edited May 10, 2012 by Cheesewhiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCBDoubleTap Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 TBCDoubletap: I can't really see anyone not liking Montana Gold's quality. They have always done really well out of all my guns and they come in at a very competitive price point. I agree with some of the other's at $100-ish/k it's not too hefty of an investment and if on the off chance you don't like them they will be excellent for practice. Try em out! I suspect that you're right - I already like the price better than what I had been loading. I received 500 of each MG 9mm today from Everglades Ammo. I'll load and test some this weekend. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Yes, Precision was out of stock so they are quoting 4-6 weeks. Got an email from Precision the other day saying they had shipped so they did much better than the 4-6 weeks they quoted. Case of MG is due in today and Precisions will prolly be here Monday. Looking forward to using the Precisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I've been using MG since I quit casting [4-5 years]. Get woke up at 2am with my wife of 43 years snoring in my ear Go on line to MG's web site Order bullets 3 days later they are sitting on the pouch waiting on me. I've had plated bullets go through targets at funny angles. When you buy MG by the case they are really close to the price of plated. It ain't broke, I'm not going to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have always had great luck with Montana Gold bullets, I figure a week to receive them is just fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Raven Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I've had great results with MG bullets in both 9mm and .45 calibers. Terrific customer service, prompt shipping, and high quality. Can't think of anything else to ask of them!! Highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Agreed - they are priced fairly, consistent and readily available. I loaded up a batch of .38 stuper using the 115gr JHPs at 1475fps and went to the range last week to practice a little and to check that the point of impact hadn't shifted as I had changed the load a little. At 18 yards shooting off my range bag I had 4 shots touching each other and centered on the 1" sighting paster with the fifth one a flier about an inch away. All of the MGs I have tried perform like this with minimal load development. Nice to know that when I miss I only have myself to blame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivers_AR Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Run both 124g JHP and 165g .40 JHP MGs, they are good to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 I loaded up 100 rounds of the Precision Bullet 125gn's and shot them tonight. Also shot 100 rounds of the MG 124gn CMJ and couple hundred of my usual 124gn Berry's. Used 4.5gn WSF for the Berry's, backed off a tad to 4.4gn for PB and MG. While the Precision Bullet rounds were very accurate, they smoked quite a bit. I was really surprised as I was expecting little if any more smoke than the copper bullets. Now, Precision lists a few preferred powders for their bullets (WSF is not one) and suggests a slower powder (which WSF is). Maybe the smoke issue can be mitigated with a different powder but I am not up to the task of changing horses right now. On the other hand the MG bullets shot great. Very accurate and for some reason I liked the recoil impulse a bit better than the Berry's. Maybe it was the tenth grain less powder, maybe the thicker jacket, maybe because the copper was not flying off. Either way I am looking forward to taking delivery of the case of MG's that should be here any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 If you were ever satisfied with plated bullets, you will love Montana Gold, Zero, and Precision Delta jacketed bullets. Comparing similar bullet styles, jacketed have always been more accurate then the plated bullets I have tried. So you buy 1000. To me, that is a minimum order just to evaluate a bullet. If you don't like them, you can ALWAYS sell them. They aren't going to drop in price and not to stock up now may be foolish. From my shooting, I prefer Zero--I just can't ever get them. Montana Gold is almost as good or just as good, and they are almost always available. Precision Bullets are really good--consistent weight and ogive--being swaged rather than cast. But, except for the 200gn L-SWC, haven't been as accurate as jacketed. They are damn good, and in calibers over .38, are certainly more affordable. However, like plated bullets and unlike standard cast bullets, a damage to the coating/plating will lead to inaccuracy and may cause barrel leading. Be sure to use sufficient flare/bell and they are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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