stingerjg Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 I just recived my new McCormick trigger for my AR. I got the last one that Midway USA had. Install was eisier than installing a stock trigger group. I pulled out the stock trigger and hammer pins and removed the trigger group (JP trigger group). The CMC trigger is one piece and dropped right in. I did have to temporaraly remove the safety lever for clearance reasons. The CMC trigger is supplied with oversized trigger and hammer pins that were kind of a tight fit and according to the supplied instructions they should be tapped in. The whole install took a grand total of 10 min. no fitting was required or was recommened by the manufacture. I have in the past installed 4 or 5 JP units and this was WAY eisier. After install i got out the handy dandy Lyman electronic trigger pull guage. My JP i had in there before broke at aprox. 3lbs 8oz. The CMC trigger had an average (five pulls) of 3lbs 4.4oz. I also did a little experement for the trigger pull. the above average resulted from a total reset of the trigger (pull and release the trigger, charge the bolt, and then take another reading) I discoverd that if i pull the trigger and hold it to the rear while charging the bolt, releasing the trigger only to the reset point i got an average pull of 2lbs 2.8oz. There is no way i could ever get my JP trigger that light (I have tried) Ill get some range time in this weekend and report back. I do not forsee any problems at all. The trigger is of very high quality and the flat trigger is cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Blasted non-baby-killing-warm-and-fuzzy sear blocked Colt lower!! I really got to get out of this <beep>ing state. If you don't hear from me in a while, I'm at the local Re-Education Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkbrd Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Will it work with the JP light weight carrier??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Will it work with the JP light weight carrier??? i dont see y it wouldnt. send it to me and ill try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Does it have any takeup? Does it have the same length of travel for reset as the JP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Does it have any takeup? Does it have the same length of travel for reset as the JP? take up is about the same as the JP(although it is hard to compare a curved trigger and a straight trigger) and the reset is much shorter than the JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Will it work with the JP light weight carrier??? blkbrd, it will probably “work“ with the JP, but that doesn’t mean it won’t damage the alloy JP low mass carrier. If the hammer profile where it rides on the bottom of the carrier isn’t the same as the JP speed hammer, you will chew up the carrier and have to buy a new one. Which is why you should check with John Paul rather than just try it out. I find it very hard to believe that any trigger is going to have a “lot” less reset than a properly setup JP trigger. Mine was installed and adjusted by JP rifles and crisp is an understatement. As far as reset goes, all I can say is, what reset? Reset travel is almost imperceptible in mine. Stingerj, have you compared the McCormick to any JP trigger group other than the one you installed yourself in your own rifle? A JP trigger group if properly installed and adjusted should provide negligible reset, or pull-through travel. I have tried a number of fantastic triggers on various AR’s and not all of them were JP parts (Accuracy Speaks, Jewel, etc.), but none were much different from another unless mis-adjusted, or purposely set some specific way. I find it hard to believe that any trigger will be noticeably better than a properly setup JP system can be. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I dont know if I read this somewhere or what, but I thought the Mcormic was a 2 stage trigger. If thats so be a bit hard to compare to a well set up JP. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You can get the McCormick as either a 1 or 2 stage trigger. As for asking JP if a competitor's product will work w/ his low mass bolt carrier, I don't think that's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 As for asking JP if a competitor's product will work w/ his low mass bolt carrier, I don't think that's a good idea. John Paul is a stand up guy and I would expect him to give the correct answer, not a biased reply, no matter what. And it’s not a matter of it working, because it will work, but a matter of it damaging the bolt carrier if it isn’t profiled correctly. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'm not saying that JP wouldn't give you a straight answer, he would. It's just (from my perspective) not cool to inquire at company #1 about company #2's product when company #1 makes and sells a similar product. Kinda like going to the Ford dealer and asking if a Chevy small block will fit in your Mustang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Kinda like going to the Ford dealer and asking if a Chevy small block will fit in your Mustang. It would. But why would waste a perfectly good engine? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 JP also has a new lightened steel bolt carrier that he was showing at the 3GN Nats. Should work with any trigger system and no issues of wear like with the Aluminum carrier. Should have a similar feel to the aluminum though. The both seem to weigh about the same. I'm not sure if it's on the market yet but it should be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 My jp trigger break's at 3 lb. 2 oz. everytime. I think it would take a while for me to get used to 3 1/2 first pull & 2# after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 From Aussieland! I have been using the Chip trigger for the last 3 months and it is rocking! I will be working with a 2 stage straight trigger when I get back home. Can't get that with anyone else's that I know of. Oh and if it screws up for some reason (wear or whatever) I can carry a spare and drop it in. IMHO: The best thing you can do with an aluminum bolt carrier is replace it with a steel one. I have never seen them last. Once the anodizing is broken through, its about done for. Take care - back in the USA next week. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 MHO: The best thing you can do with an aluminum bolt carrier is replace it with a steel one. I have never seen them last. Once the anodizing is broken through, its about done for. Hi Matt, I beg to disagree about the JP alloy bolt carrier wearing out fast. I have over 9k on mine and it is barely worn. The anodizing wore off the bottom where the hammer rides in about 300-500 rounds and a small groove was formed. Since then the wear has not progressed in any appreciable amount and the bolt carrier runs as well now as when it was brand spanking new. I expect the bolt carrier to last as long as the rest of the rifle will. I queried John Paul about this as soon as I saw the initial wear, but he said not to worry, that this was normal and the carrier would not wear out as long as I was using his profiled hammer. There is no discernible wear anywhere else on the bolt carrier where it rides in the upper receiver, or inside it where the bolt and rings live. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 George, That's great! I do not believe in them. I want something that works all the time in a bunch of different conditions. FYI I was referring to the anodizing where the bolt head sits not the bottom of the carrier. I think it is fantastic that JP is coming out with a low mass stainless bolt. This should solve many of the issues on the aluminum carriers. Take care, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 FYI I was referring to the anodizing where the bolt head sits not the bottom of the carrier. Hi Matt, As I said, no appreciable wear whatsoever, anywhere on the alloy carrier I run after 8k+ rounds of 180-200 PF fodder (SMK 69 & 77’s). The only places the anodizing is worn on the bolt carrier is on the underside from the hammer and just below the carrier key on either side where it contacts the receiver walls. Inside and up front where the bolt rides is pristine. Maybe the type and amount of lubrication in play has given others problems, but not in mine, or anyone else I know running with the LMOS from JP. I do think a standard 1lb steel bolt carrier is the better choice for real life situations where maintenance and cleaning may not get practiced like they ought to. But in competition usage the JP alloy carriers cause no issues if kept clean and lubed properly. My JP CTR-02 has been the most reliable AR I have ever run in competition. Function has been 100% except for one episode last year with a bad mag that had cracked and bent feed lips. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott G Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I don't know jack about bolt carriers, but I was able to install a CM trigger group in about 5 minutes. It took me longer to remove the grip and safety than it did to install the trigger! Pull went from off the scale on my RCBS trigger scale to a consistent 3 lbs. Why can't someone make one of these for 1911's?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 Pull went from off the scale on my RCBS trigger scale to a consistent 3 lbs. Why can't someone make one of these for 1911's?? That would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 OK, what do I *really* need to buy to put in the JP trigger? Is the "speed hammer" necessary to realize the full potential? (An S-7 sear and the stock, case hardened hammer sounds like a bad combo to me.) Do I need the oversized anti-walk pins? The lack of options is surely one virtue of the CMC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Eric, Remind me to let you play with the trigger on my AR this weekend. It is the JP of the non-drop-in variety. Took me around 90 minutes to put in including the time to let the Locktite set. I took it real slow and methodical. It was simple. I think the anti-walk pins are worth their weight in gold. They are tough enough to drive in and out that I initially set up the trigger using the standard DPMS pins that came in my lower kit. When I put in the JP pins in I had to re-tweak the trigger and the pull became far more crisp. I then bobbed the DPMS hammer per JP instructions to lighten that up. If I was doing a lot of these I would make myself a set of punches to the JP pin diameters for ease in setup. With a little practice this could be a 15-20 minute job (aside from Locktite setting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 If I was doing a lot of these I would make myself a set of punches to the JP pin diameters for ease in setup. With a little practice this could be a 15-20 minute job (aside from Locktite setting). A set of ALIGNMENT & PUSH PUNCHES from Brownells does wonders for AR work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 How does the McCormick two-stage reset? Does it reset/feel like a: Glock/1911: After the trigger breaks, ride the trigger until reset... if you press the trigger at this point there is no take up or slack (1st stage). or Beretta/etc: After the trigger breaks, ride the trigger until reset... if you press the trigger at this point take up or slack is present (1st stage). I prefer the Glock/1911 type trigger. I like a two-stage trigger since the 1st stage feels like the take up you have in a normal Glock/1911 trigger. But I don't necessarily want that take up feel after the first shot. I got the Jewell and unfortunately it is just like the Beretta/etc reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) OK, what do I *really* need to buy to put in the JP trigger? Is the "speed hammer" necessary to realize the full potential? Hi Eric, You will realize the full potential of the trigger just by installing it as it comes in the kit. The speed hammer is gilding the lily for your application and not needed unless using an alloy bolt carrier (JP Low Mass Operating System). Once you try a trigger of this quality, you will never be happy with anything less on an AR. BTW, as I said earlier, the JP isn’t the only great trigger setup out there for AR’s, but it is definitely one of the top 3-4 options available. Unlike all the custom light triggers tweaked out of stock parts I have used in the past, the JP has so far been the only trigger that is the same as when it was new after 8k+ of live fire and maybe twice that in dry fire time on it. -- Regards, Edited July 28, 2004 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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