What guns do the top limited competitiors shoot?

[EngineerEli]

I am in the market for a new limited / limited 10 gun and have been searching for what guns exactly the top shooters from these two divisions have shot in the past few years. If there is somewhere obvious I can find this information please let me know, if it is something of a "trade secret" let me know that too.

If there are M and GM shooters out there that are willing to disclose what guns they shoot, and with what specs, I think it would be really interesting and helpful in specifying out my new gun. Anything you are willing to give is helpful, make, model, gun smith, barrel length, component weights, build sheets, and of course PICTURES!!!

I realize this is pretty general, and that this could turn into a back and forth of which is best, but I just want to have the data on what gear the top shooter use.

Thanks everyone,

Eli

[Kyle O]

Fully reliable 2011, with tuned mags are what I see most folks winning with in limited. Usually, a custom build. 6" or 5" or full dust cover, or half dust cover, is personal preferance.

Or, sometimes a Glock. (sorry, had to)

[beltjones]

1. Call a reputable builder. There are a bunch. See SVI, Matt Cheely, Shay Akai, Cameron's Customs, Millenium Custom, Virgil Tripp, and on and on and on.

2. Talk to the builder about what makes a Limited gun "work" for Limited.

3. Realize that if Bob Vogel decided to shoot his Glock 24 at Limited Nationals he would be a threat to win it.

4. Realize that BJ Norris came in at 98.38% at the last Nationals using a rented Glock 35 and magazines borrowed from Dave Sevigny.

5. Finally understand that the best gun for Limited is the one that is in your hands after you complete a class with someone like Manny Bragg.

6. If you "get" all of the above, but still want something really sexy, call Brandon at SVI.

Edited April 3, 2012 by beltjones

[ChrisMcCracken]

The smarta$$ answer is as follows: The top shooters are winning with the guns that they put 100,000s of rounds through a year.

I had an email exhange with a professional open shooter recently. He disclosed that he's shooting anywhere from 700-900 rounds a day, 4-5 days a week, and that's not couting all the dry fire he does. The only time he usually takes off is a few days after a Major.

It doesn't matter what you shoot. If you get something reliable, take a class, and put the trigger time in, you'll get better. If you do that to the extreme, you'll be a top shooter too. You'll also find that most top level shooters aren't secretive about what they shoot, as they're often sponsored and paid to shoot what they shoot.

[Merlin Orr]

Any.... reliable pistol and mags.

The same canvas and paints do not make you Rembrandt.

[jdphotoguy]

And just because a shooter is sponsored by XYZ gun manufacture, doesn't mean they are truly shooting one of XYZ's guns, but often a custom gun with XYZ's logo stamped on the frame and/or slide

[pjb45]

With the exception of the Glock Champions, almost every top shooter is using a gun that has been customized for them by well-known gunsmith.

STI is very popular base gun. They are readily available.

SV is not readily available. They supply a very limited number of guns to gunsmiths.

SA is similar to SV, a limited number of top shooters use them - for various reasons.

The bottom line is the gunsmith. A great gunsmith will do a great job on your gun.

You might also add Don Golembieski and Matt McLearn to the list.

Matt Burkett is building some fine guns also.

The Limcat series is awesome.

When it comes to SV Brandon and Don are in a class by themselves.

Just as a side note: a gun that works every time is more critical to winning than accuracy. A gun that pukes, takes a top shooter out of the running.

Edited April 4, 2012 by pjb45

[EngineerEli]

First of all thanks to everyone for their FAST responses!

1. Call a reputable builder. There are a bunch. See SVI, Matt Cheely, Shay Akai, Cameron's Customs, Millenium Custom, Virgil Tripp, and on and on and on.

2. Talk to the builder about what makes a Limited gun "work" for Limited.

3. Realize that if Bob Vogel decided to shoot his Glock 24 at Limited Nationals he would be a threat to win it.

4. Realize that BJ Norris came in at 98.38% at the last Nationals using a rented Glock 35 and magazines borrowed from Dave Sevigny.

5. Finally understand that the best gun for Limited is the one that is in your hands after you complete a class with someone like Manny Bragg.

6. If you "get" all of the above, but still want something really sexy, call Brandon at SVI.

I feel like beltjones gives me a good format to reply with:

1. I have been researching all the above gun builders for months, and have looked at all the options they have to offer. I never clarified but I will be looking for a 2011 style gun.

2. I haven't called any gun builders yet but have read endless threads discussing the pros and cons of different things such as bull and bushing barrel, slide weights and profiles, frame profiles, 5 vs 6 in guns, and so on and so forth, so I feel like I have a pretty good feel for all the options out there, but many of these threads end up with people swearing by both conflicting features making it tough to make up your mind, which is one of the reasons I am curious to see what the best shooters use.

3/4. I realize practicing with any gun makes a huge difference, and complete agree! I have been shooting my CZ 75 SA in .40 for nearly 5 years and really know and shoot well with it, but there are some inherent problems with it:

-The grip simply feels too small for me.

-The beaver tail is too short causing me pretty regular hammer bite.

-The max capacity it can hold is 13 + 1 making it ineffective for limited. I would like to be able to compete in both limited and limited 10.

-A gun with a 5" (or 5.4" or 6") would have a longer sight radious, longer barrel for easier PF, etc

-I could invest lots of money into it but it still put me at a disadvantage to many others.

-There are others but I think that gets my point across. Great first gun, but if I want to get serious, I need to upgrade.

5. I actually did just complete a competitive shooting class which helped immensely, now I need more range time, but really dosent over come some of the above issues with my CZ.

6. So I feel like I have at least to a point addressed all of his points, so yes the next logical step is to call someone like Brandon at SVI, and I have a few designs on file, but I was hoping here to find out what the best shooters shoot. A valid point was brought up that sponsored shooters will shoot whatever their sponsorer sells, so I guess i am also interested in those shooters that are at a very high level but are not yet sponsored. These people have the option to choose any company and any design.

So maybe I should rephrase my initial question. What do M and GM shooters that are not restricted by sponsors choose to shoot. What I could see being helpful is something like the show me your limited gun thread, but include specifications, and your USPSA class, if people would be willing to do that.

Unfortunately I haven't been to that many matches yet and nothing above local ones, so I haven't seen first hand what people are shooting.

Some of the types of design decisions I am still considering are:

-Barrel length

-Bull vs Bushing vs Sight tracker

-Dust cover length and profile; full length, butler cut, short

-Grip shape / style / material / texture

-Slide serration types

-Trigger / hammer type and style

-Weight distribution

-Etc.

Sorry for that post getting long, but i think this could be interesting information for a lot of people. Also, that is amazing that the pro's get to shoot nearly 1000 rds a day 5 days a week, and get paid for it!!! That is officially my new long term goal to get sponsored and go pro, lol

Thanks Everyone!

-Eli

[shootingchef]

talking does nothing, you need to go and shoot the different pistols and find one that is comfortable to you, we are all different and have different tastes, styles and needs. Don't leave out the ammo, very important. Ask around, people will let you try their stuff. You will probably do as many of us have, bought and traded many a gun till we found what worked for us.

Me: Master

Gun: SV 5 inch 40 bull barrel with a full dust cover

[RangerTrace]

1. Call a reputable builder. There are a bunch. See SVI, Matt Cheely, Shay Akai, Cameron's Customs, Millenium Custom, Virgil Tripp, and on and on and on.

2. Talk to the builder about what makes a Limited gun "work" for Limited.

3. Realize that if Bob Vogel decided to shoot his Glock 24 at Limited Nationals he would be a threat to win it.

4. Realize that BJ Norris came in at 98.38% at the last Nationals using a rented Glock 35 and magazines borrowed from Dave Sevigny.

5. Finally understand that the best gun for Limited is the one that is in your hands after you complete a class with someone like Manny Bragg.

6. If you "get" all of the above, but still want something really sexy, call Brandon at SVI.

That's true, every inch of it

[RangerTrace]

The smarta$$ answer is as follows: The top shooters are winning with the guns that they put 100,000s of rounds through a year.

I had an email exhange with a professional open shooter recently. He disclosed that he's shooting anywhere from 700-900 rounds a day, 4-5 days a week, and that's not couting all the dry fire he does. The only time he usually takes off is a few days after a Major.

It doesn't matter what you shoot. If you get something reliable, take a class, and put the trigger time in, you'll get better. If you do that to the extreme, you'll be a top shooter too. You'll also find that most top level shooters aren't secretive about what they shoot, as they're often sponsored and paid to shoot what they shoot.

Chris,

You and I know who you talked to and it's not an exaggeration. He came out of nowhere in a couple of years because he has the means, the desire and the dedication to practice...and he's quite athletic too....

[Don Springer]

I think you've got most of the info you need. What you need to decide is do you wanna shoot off the rack or have something built. If you're going custom then pick 3 of the better known smiths and give 'em a call. Ask them the questions you're asking here and pick the guy you're most comfortable with.

[EngineerEli]

Thanks shootingchef, I am starting to realize what you are saying is very true. I guess I need to start asking people to try out their guns. I would have thought people wouldnt be thrilled about letting people shoot their guns. I have a lead on a used SVI that I think could be very close to what I want. It is seeming more and more like by best bet is to pic it up and shoot it for a while then change or sell or trade into what I find I like best.

[lumpygravy]

Some of the types of design decisions I am still considering are:

-Barrel length

-Bull vs Bushing vs Sight tracker

-Dust cover length and profile; full length, butler cut, short

-Grip shape / style / material / texture

-Slide serration types

-Trigger / hammer type and style

-Weight distribution

-Etc.

I ain't no M/GM but I've been around the block once or twice. So here we go...

Barrel length: I have a 5" and 6" topend and it's easier (for my 50 year old eyes) to shoot accurately at the same speed with the 6". That might be because both have the same rear notch width. I'm wondering if I'll feel the same if I get a wider notch on the 5". Hmmm...

Bull vs Bushing vs Sight tracker: My limited guns have always been bull barrels - sorry, I'm not not much help here.

Dust cover length and profile/Weight distribution: My old gun was a 5" SDC and tungsten FLGR. I'm comparing the two topends on an SV LDC frame and stainless FLGR. The SDC was a poly grip and the LDC is an SV billet. The LDC and billet grip add about 4 oz. and the gun balances right at the trigger guard. The SDC was nose heavy. I've run the 6" top with the LDC and it's both nose heavy and too heavy overall so I'm putting it on an SDC frame with billet grip.

Grip shape/style/material/texture: I have tasted the SV billet grip kool aid and I ain't drinkin' anything else. I have the SV small competition billet grip, flat MSH, standard magwell with boring black skate tape. I'm going to put some Charcoal with Skulls skate tape on order. They have a golf ball grip treatment that looks interesting.

Slide serration types: I like front and rear serrations on my guns. I ordered my SV topends without SV serrations. They're going to Matt Cheely for his serrations. I wanted SV but I also wanted something different. I have a SSD gun on order with SV with Xcellerator serrations front and back.

Trigger/hammer type and style: I'm running the SV medium curve because that's what fits my trigger finger. I haven't tried the other profiles though I tried a flat a long time ago and didn't like it. Hammers are mixed. SV when possible; mixed bag on my franken guns. Past a certain point, it's about the trigger job. Give a good 'smith decent parts and you'll get a nice trigger. Don't expect a 'smith to transform crappy parts into a great trigger.

Like other have said, get thee to the range, shoot what you have and ask around. I have never been refused a request to handle or shoot anothers gun if I asked nicely. Just don't ask at "Make Ready" Save it until the person is clearly not preparing to shoot. Remember to return the favor when the shoe of experience is on your foot and a newbie comes and asks you for your opinion.

[RangerTrace]

Thanks shootingchef, I am starting to realize what you are saying is very true. I guess I need to start asking people to try out their guns. I would have thought people wouldnt be thrilled about letting people shoot their guns. I have a lead on a used SVI that I think could be very close to what I want. It is seeming more and more like by best bet is to pic it up and shoot it for a while then change or sell or trade into what I find I like best.

Keep in mind that just because it says "Infinity" on the slide, it doesn't mean it's a factory built pistol. Three years ago, folks on this forum had me convinced that there was very little difference between a factory STI and a factory SV Infinity. In my experience, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

WIth that said, I just bought a well used (20K rounds), factory built, Infinity Open gun and it's freaking awesome. I love it. But I know where it came from, how it was maintained and the true round count. I know it will serve me well, while my new IMM is being built.

This isn't meant as a dig against STI or any full custom pistol built on an STI frame/slide. I'm simply saying, make sure your used SV hasn't been tinkered with, by the wrong person.

[EngineerEli]

Lumpygravy, thanks a lot for sharing your wisdom! My plan is to go with the 5" sight tracker barrel, sv metal signiture grip, and either a full length dust cover, or a butler cut dust cover to lighten the front up just a little because of the Hybrid barrel. Both designs i would just plan on a stainless full length recoil rod.

SV-COP, I am 99% confident the gun is actually a SVI factory built gun. On that note though, the seller is not the first owner, and is unsure of the exact round count. Are there certain things to watch for? I though I have heard that most SVI's will nearly last forever. The bluing is a little worn but I'm not worried about that, the lands in the barrel rifling I could be worried about but if it is an SVI AET hybrid barrel, how many rounds can one of those take before being shot out? Do I need to worry about the frame to slide fit loosening up, or the trigger job degrading?

Thanks Again!

Edited April 4, 2012 by EngineerEli

[al503]

Any.... reliable pistol and mags.

The same canvas and paints do not make you Rembrandt.

I'd add 'reasonably accurate' as well but this is it.

Get something reliable and reasonably accurate and shoot the crap out of it. By the time you wear it out, you'll know all you need to know for the next one.

Like Ben Hogan said, 'The secret is in the Dirt.'

[beltjones]

Thanks shootingchef, I am starting to realize what you are saying is very true. I guess I need to start asking people to try out their guns. I would have thought people wouldnt be thrilled about letting people shoot their guns. I have a lead on a used SVI that I think could be very close to what I want. It is seeming more and more like by best bet is to pic it up and shoot it for a while then change or sell or trade into what I find I like best.

Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods, but I haven't found anyone NOT excited to let me shoot their guns. Basically you just hang out, help tear down after the match, and ask if you can shoot everyone's guns.

However, I'll caution you that shooting a few rounds through a gun after a match won't tell you much. You don't know the difference from reloaded round to reloaded round, you don't know how it will really feel as you transition hard, and so on.

Ultimately I went with an SVI because they're local to me, and I could go visit and literally hold everything in my hands as I made my decision. I also got a good feeling as I discussed options with Brandon, and not only did he listen to every request I made, he also warned away from some options that they had extensively tested that didn't work.

I also spoke to some other builders who I thought had great products, and who I thought seemed like first rate individuals, specifically Ed Cameron and Shay Akai. However, I really wanted something that would make me say "OHMYDEARLORD" every time I saw it, and that was SVI.

As you can see, there are loads of decisions that go into which Limited gun you go with - so if you have a lead on one you think will work for you, go for it.

[AZGunut]

I am a Master class Limited shooter and build guns for many GM level Limited shooters. Now take this with a grain of salt, but most top Limited shooters who are full time Limited shooters, shoot full weight (ie mildly lightened slides, long wide frame, bull barrels and a big percentage Tungsten Guide rods) 5" Limited guns. Very few shoot 6" (notably Todd J and Rob, but I don't consider Rob a full time limited shooter) We sell a ton of 6" Limited guns and I have shot one for the past few years, but the 5" gun presents itself so much better to me. When I bring a 5" up to my line of sight, the sights are aligned, when I bring a 6" up, they are very rarely aligned, even after all of the thousands of presentations, to me, trying to fight what is natural hasn't worked so well for me the last few years. I also have been shooting a Caspian Hi Cap and absolutely love it, love a heavy frame with a light fast reciprocating slide combo. To each his own, but if you look at the guns of the top 5-8 Limited shooters, you would be amazed, how basic and how heavy they are!

Edited April 4, 2012 by AZGunut

[pjb45]

A few years ago I was going to get into Limited. I called several notable gunsmiths. I asked them about SV and STI. Every single one of the said STI was the way to go.

So I went with STI frame kit. I and my friend did some work on it. It was completed by Kodiak Precision. The parts were all top of the line.

Then I spent some in Phoenix. It was there I become convinced that SV Infinity made the best guns. Then I found out why the gunsmiths preferred STI, SV does not really sell to but a select few.

I sold the STI when my SV was completed. I have never regretted selling the STI.

Over the years, I became more familiar with their guns and shooters. There is doubt in my mind that SV makes the best components and pistols. I own three of them with a fourth on the way.

Buy the used SV.

[DrawandDuck]

I had an email exhange with a professional open shooter recently. He disclosed that he's shooting anywhere from 700-900 rounds a day, 4-5 days a week, and that's not couting all the dry fire he does. The only time he usually takes off is a few days after a Major.

Chris,

You and I know who you talked to and it's not an exaggeration. He came out of nowhere in a couple of years because he has the means, the desire and the dedication to practice...and he's quite athletic too....

Sounds like Bill Drummond....

[Aglifter]

I suggest that going with a good, local, 'smith, unless you want art. SV does build very pretty guns, but it is handy to shoot w. your 'smith, or one of his employees, on a regular basis.

[Neomet]

Tony makes some really good points (as usual). I am like him in that I like heavy framed, light slide guns. I have shot quite a few different combinations of limited guns but actually prefer my old CZ TS that has had the CTS treatment done to it and the slide lightened. With a 5.5" barrel it solves the 5" vs 6" argument with Solomon like wisdom. I know I am in the distinct minority with this choice but I have to say I do find some perverse pleasure in seeing the number of top shooters (and others) putting metal grips on their guns. Still, different strokes for different folks.

[GMEddie]

Tony is right most of the top limited shooters I see use 5" fld guns with little weight taken off the slide. I have to wonder if this reason has to be due to standard division for world shoot. I own a 5" gun but I prefer my 6" sdc frame. I use a Schuemann bushing barrel with slide lightening.

[59Bassman]

Tony makes some really good points (as usual). I am like him in that I like heavy framed, light slide guns. I have shot quite a few different combinations of limited guns but actually prefer my old CZ TS that has had the CTS treatment done to it and the slide lightened. With a 5.5" barrel it solves the 5" vs 6" argument with Solomon like wisdom. I know I am in the distinct minority with this choice but I have to say I do find some perverse pleasure in seeing the number of top shooters (and others) putting metal grips on their guns. Still, different strokes for different folks.

I was going to ask about this myself. I'm no M or GM in Limited (or any other division), but I don't feel like my CTS gives up anything to a 2011-type pistol. It limits your accessory and aftermarket choices in everything, but mags that work are readily available for ~$100 finished and hold 20 at minimum. I'm very pleased with mine, other than the grips. And that I'm about to fix.

If you've got a SAO CZ that you shoot well, it's at least worth your while to explore that platform while you're making your choice.

Edited April 4, 2012 by 59Bassman