The_Vigilante Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I recently purchased a Saiga 20-rd magazine from R&R and have been having nothing but problems since I got it. What normally happens is that when I load it with 20 I can get the first round off but the next round will not feed into chamber. I have found that if I load around 10 I won't have any feeding problems. Any suggestions or advice to solve this troublesome problem? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The 20 rounder from R&R never did work for me. Rob was nice enough to let me trade it for 2 12 rounders. Not sure what to tell you. I even sent my gun back so Rob could have the gun and the mag to experiment. It worked for him but not for me. It could be an ammo issue. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Vigilant: I have had the same problem and thought it was just my Saiga's. The first couple of rounds would seem to nose dive and crush the front of the round into the bottom of the barrel/feed ramp. After I ran into some other R&R shooters at SMM3G last weekend I kinda confirmed it was not me but the magazine/function. After returning from SMM3G I opened up a stock Surefire and the R&R 20 round magazine and put them side by side and found out what my problem apparently was/is. The top part of the spring was not the same! The Surefire is "Tuned"/adjusted to where the full first coil is at the same level. Another way of saying when the full top coil is mounted/fitted to the follower, the follower is level and goes into the magazine tube straight instead of listing to one side. The next coil is also tuned a little shorter than the rest of the coils in the magazine. I did all this with a pair of pliers to "tune" them so it would look like/mimic what the Surefire magazine looked like. Robert advises that if you run to weak of a recoil spring (first spring that is removed when you take them off the recoil guide) like mine of a 13# spring allows the action to move too fast and does not allow the magazine to push up the heavy weight of the rounds in the 20 round magazine. I am not from MO. but I really need to see this in action and am testing to see what difference this will make. First and foremost it must run 100% like all my 12 rounder do. With just tuning the magazine spring in both of my 20 rounders, I had 1 round in each magazine failure to completely go into battery. To correct the malfunction all I had to do is push the charging handle forward and get back to work. Now this happened with a 13# spring and a 18# spring and I can't find any difference in function. I'm using Winchester 1200 fps 3 dram 1 1/8 loads. More testing is coming... He is putting together 2 16 round magazines for me now...I will report back what I find out. Hope this helps, Busyhawk RLTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Thanks for the write-up. Will be looking forward to your next report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Another thing that can cause problems is a weak recoil spring. The bolt travels too fast and tries to chamber the next round before the magazine has a chance to push it up all the way. I've run 2 different 20 round mags over the last 3 years and have only had trouble when my mag spring got weak. I try to keep fresh recoil springs in the gun at all times. I never encountered the problem with the spring that Scott mentions above and I have had every different mag spring that Robert has made. The current one is the best ever and I run my 20 on almost every stage I shoot. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 I only recently purchased the magazine from Robert and have used it sparingly so guess I have the most recent recoil springs he offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Vigilant and other R&R magazine users, OK, I should get the 16 rounders tomorrow but have the following to report: I took the spring and follower out of both magazines and very slowly and carefully eased the follower and spring into the magazine making sure the spring didn't bind/get caught on the opening of the magazine. When the follower reached the joint (both 20 round magazines) where the two magazines came together the follower would stall/require more effort to get it past this spot. I then disassembled both and did see where Robert (R&R Targets) cleaned up the joint but it still needed a very little cleaning up with a either a small file/sand paper/ or in my case I used a carbide knife to smooth the upper magazine part. Since the lower part of the magazine can't hinder the follower I didn't have to clean it up at all. I then assembled both magazines again and tested both of them as described above and now no hang up! I then loaded both up and now they run without a hitch. Damn 20 rounders eat a lot of ammo! I still have yet to see a difference using a stronger recoil spring but I guess more testing is in order. I want to try to test ammo with a lighter load and see where the failure point is. I am still using the #2 setting (most open setting) on the gas plug up front so I want to try a #1 setting (restricts air a little) also and see if that will make a difference also. My empties are being thrown about 4 feet away now. If any body else has any suggestions like, Doug uses only Winchester gray hull Super Sport Handicap shot shells and Fiocchi 7/8 slugs, I would like to know. I use almost any shot shell (Cabela's sale stuff like Winchester/Remington club) and because of accuracy use the Centurion slugs (which I can't find anymore). The Fiocchi slugs don't like my choke I guess...I normally only use Modified in the Saiga where I only use Improved in the Benelli. Must get ready to shoot the Ephrata 3 gun this weekend...Carl Carbon and Pat Kelly put on one hell of a match. Hope this helps those Saiga shooters out there, Sincerely, Busyhawk Professional RO for hire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 After talking to Scott at the Texas Multigun match I decided to try another R&R 20 round mag and boy am I glad I did. I did not have to tune or tweak this one. It has ran great so far. used it at a match today and it ran great. Did not have to reload once. 21 rounds in a Saiga is great! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) I received advice from another Forum member to use a stronger recoil spring on my Saiga so I went with an 18-lb 1911 spring and it solved my problems. Edited May 14, 2012 by The_Vigilante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Awsome. Like I said having 21 rounds at the buzzer is almost like cheating. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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