Fast c, or a slower a?

[AlexOsensei]

My experience on the range.

I have trained with a steel target at 10/15/25 meters.

The targets have the form of alpha.

For timing, I shooted 2 on the first 2 on the second and so.

With the timer I understand that to have two alpha on the first, my split is .22/25

second .30/.35

and the last sot splits .50/.55

I shooted a lot, and the time were always the same.

this could mean that when I shoot target I have to follow this time on shooting to stay in alphas.

But when I start shooting a stage.. I slow down to .50 splits..

Like I forgot I can shoot faster.

I think is why I am newbie.. but I am working on..to improve my shooting tech.

[benos]

Steve Anderson put it well to me during a recent session: "See what you need to see to shoot the A." It is simple yet deep and it has transformed my practice and match performance. Learning to call your shots is the only reliable way to gain speed and not sacrifice. You will still shoot C's (unintentionally) but it means that you just thought you saw and called the A or you really didn't see it at all. "Visual patience" is another term to describe it. Be honest in your dry fire practice and patient in your match shooting. It will pay off. Speed will come naturally but focusing on speed and the tradeoffs of speed will never force you to develop the visual skills needed. I had the pleasure of shooting with Angus Hobdell at the Florida Open this year and he said to me: "Get your movement done quickly, then get your shooting done, then get your movement done quickly...." His comment was a great reminder to get out of the mental trap of just doing everything fast. The shooting can only be as fast as you can see what you need to see.

All that is right on the money.

be

[Flexmoney]

My experience on the range.

I have trained with a steel target at 10/15/25 meters.

The targets have the form of alpha.

For timing, I shooted 2 on the first 2 on the second and so.

With the timer I understand that to have two alpha on the first, my split is .22/25

second .30/.35

and the last sot splits .50/.55

I shooted a lot, and the time were always the same.

this could mean that when I shoot target I have to follow this time on shooting to stay in alphas.

But when I start shooting a stage.. I slow down to .50 splits..

Like I forgot I can shoot faster.

I think is why I am newbie.. but I am working on..to improve my shooting tech.

Do you do your training from a static position? Little movement?

[jun_1911]

Steve Anderson put it well to me during a recent session: "See what you need to see to shoot the A." xxx Learning to call your shots is the only reliable way to gain speed and not sacrifice. You will still shoot C's (unintentionally) but it means that you just thought you saw and called the A or you really didn't see it at all. "Visual patience" is another term to describe it. xxxxx Speed will come naturally but focusing on speed and the tradeoffs of speed will never force you to develop the visual skills needed. xxxxx The shooting can only be as fast as you can see what you need to see.

I like this instruction.

[mikeg1005]

I'm new to uspsa, and need to know which is better? Thanks,Dave

You will never get out of middle B class if you shoot "fast charlies". The top of B, bottom of A class is where people start shooting Alphas, fast.

You are basically asking is it better to be sloppier with your sight picture/front post location... the answer is no.

With enough dry firing/practice, you will see that getting the required sight picture to hit an Alpha takes no more time than getting a sloppy sight picture to hit everything enclosed by the Charlie perf.

If you plan to get good... start shooting Alphas. Also the approach of "shoot slower to get your hits" is WRONG. Your sights should dictate the speed... not your mind/body. Don't "slow down" to get your A hits... just aim and get them... and the time will be what it will be. With practice, this time will become faster and faster as you learn how to aim faster/drive the gun/call your shots.

Also, a lot more time savings can be found it proper course of fire break down, foot placement, which targets to shoot first/from where, etc... Work on saving time there... instead of sacrificing point with the illusion that you are going faster.

Someone said that one quote that really speaks volumes... "Shoot as fast as you can see your sights, everything else do at warp speed."

Mike.

Edited May 8, 2012 by mikeg1005

[mikeg1005]

I'm still not with you here. Regardless of skill level or division, the optimal percentage in terms of balancing speed and accuracy is to shoot as fast as you can earn 93-95% of the points available.

Why? Because at the top of the game, where the top 3-5 finishers in a division are as near as makes no difference to equal skill levels, the guys who are coming out on top are the ones shooting those kinds of point percentages as efficiently as possible, without exception.

You're free to shoot however you want of course, but you're choosing to ignore the overwhelming evidence to the contrary... This is like those old Weaver guys saying Isosceles is only good if you shoot IPSC, when in reality it's the best stance for getting fast and accurate hits no matter what your target is. Shooting 93-95% of the points is the best way to succeed in this game no matter what your skill level.

No.

The only evidence that exists is that guys winning the big matches are MISSING 5-7% of their points.

I have never talked to a top end shooter that says he does anything other than aim for all alphas. No one aims for 95% of the points.... they aim for 100% and because this is a speed oriented game, miss 5-7% on average.

The number really is irrelevent... with practice it takes no more time to aim for the A zone vs. accepting a sloppier sight picture. Missing the A zone happens for a number of reasons... but intentionally planning your COF to miss 5-7% is not the way to do it.

Mike.

[ErichF]

. but intentionally planning your COF to miss 5-7% is not the way to do it.

Mike.

Oh my gawd...again, who ever said one should PLAN to miss anything? This point is becoming belabored since no one seems to comprehend what has been written in regards to what the points percentage number should tell you.

OF COURSE you aim for all Alphas.

OF COURSE you only shoot as fast as your sights.

OF COURSE you conduct all other movements as fast as you safely can.

The 90-95% figure is only a METRIC used AFTER THE FACT to see if what you are doing is making sense or to quantify your consistency. For Pete's Sake, folks...it's simple. If I shoot a match and only get 65% of the points, where I usually get 90%, that's a CLUE to me that I have to look at what contributed to a piss-poor performance. It's obviously not like I PLANNED in my head, "hey, this is an easy match, I'll just shoot 65% of the points and I'll be good."

Some of you guys will drive a person to trying to make a simple point.

[mikeg1005]

Oh my gawd...again, who ever said one should PLAN to miss anything? This point is becoming belabored since no one seems to comprehend what has been written in regards to what the points percentage number should tell you.

Maybe interpreted it wrong... but DonovanM stated that shooting for 93-95% of the points is the way to win... This would imply you are anticipating/planning misses. Would it not?

Mike.

Edited May 8, 2012 by mikeg1005

[ErichF]

Oh my gawd...again, who ever said one should PLAN to miss anything? This point is becoming belabored since no one seems to comprehend what has been written in regards to what the points percentage number should tell you.

Maybe interpreted it wrong... but DonovanM stated that shooting for 93-95% of the points is the way to win... This would imply you are anticipating/planning misses. Would it not?

Mike.

It would not. He is saying that if, after the match, you got 93-95% of points, you probably shot near the top of your abilities and/or didn't overly exceed them. It's only a part of the equation you need to plug a value into in order to figure out how you are doing. Everyone has their own equation against which they judge their success, based on their own set of priorities. Some folks, like yourself, choose not to use that percentage as part of their total equation, and there's nothing wrong with that, either. But, to say that folks outright PLAN to shoot low percentages is not in spirit with the point, and is an incorrect interpretation of the intent of the percentage.

Edited May 8, 2012 by ErichF

[MattYvip]

I'm new to uspsa, and need to know which is better? Thanks,Dave

Think of it like this... 1) you can't miss fast enough to win; however, you can't get 100% of the stage points and expect to win if it took you half an hour to shoot the stage.

the 90% rule is a good rule to follow. Think of it in terms of points lost and what kind of time you'd have to have to make up for it. If you have a Mike thats 3-5 seconds you have to be faster in order to break even. So why not take that extra tenth of a second to follow through? If you shoot a C you need to be about .5-1.5 seconds faster to make up for it... Make sense? If you're flying through stages and you're still about half the pack, try taking that extra tenth of a second (I know it'll seem longer while you're shooting but it's really not) to make a good hit and follow through. You should see you climbing up the ladder pretty quick by shooting a few extra points per stage as long as it's not taking you all day to do it.