Classifier scores when DQ'd.

[Barrettone]

Forgive me if this question has been asked in the past, but do your classifier results still get sent to Sedro even if you are DQ'd from the match??? Is that a club decision, or is there a rule prohibiting it??? I know that you are DQ'd from the match , but what about classifiers??? A person, did, afterall, pony up the money for the match, part of which is for a mission count with a classifier, so are they entitled to that classifier since they paid for it to be submitted, or does the host club not have to pay for that individual since they DQ'd??? Please advise. This is not based on any particular incident, the question merely popped into my head.

Jeff

[Garfield]

I think it all depends on whether the stages are part of the match for which the DQ was issued. I think that if these stages are indeed part of the match, the classifier scores will not be sent in. But I couldn't find anything specific for this in the IPSC rules.

[Barrettone]

I think that we all would agree, that a DQ is a serious issue. It just strikes me odd that the organization (USPSA) would still benefit, even when the competitor paid for a mission count with a classifier. IMHO, it would appear that, if the fees were still paid, that the classifier should be inputted into the system. That is, if the host club is still expected to pay for that competitor. Just one of those questions that makes you go hmmmmmm??? Maybe we need a policy for this???

Jeff

[Vince Pinto]

Jeff,

You raise an interesting point. On one hand, it can also be argued that you paid a match fee which is not refunded if you get a match DQ. On the other hand, I guess you're just asking that classifier stages shot before the match DQ should stand for classifer purposes only (not for match results).

While I cannot deal with this matter in respect of the USPSA, I'll certainly run the matter past the IPSC Rules Committee, and I will revert in due course, because I agree that a policy on this matter, one way or another, is advisable.

[Dead Buff]

IMHO I would like to see the classifier scored on its own (maybe even if the DQ happend before the CL stage) - would get more people assest faster and help IPSC overall.

[Vince Pinto]

IMHO I would like to see the classifier scored on its own (maybe even if the DQ happend before the CL stage) - would get more people assest faster and help IPSC overall.

On that, we already have a long-standing policy.

Once you've received a match DQ, you cannot shoot any more stages in that match, regardless of whether or not they're classifiers or "regular" stages (Rule 10.3.1).

[Dead Buff]

Oops, sorry forgot 'bout that one for a sec....

[vluc]

hmm...there is the spot in EZWinscore on DQ, but can't remember what happens when you upload the results....

we had a dq yesterday at the local matches I score...once I get the remainder of the sheets and enter them, I can answer that question better....

[Jim Norman]

It is my understanding that the mission count fees go in regardless of DQ. You have 30 shooters, on e DQ's, you stil send in for all 30.

I just checked the last match we ran, we had a DQ, THese people are counted for Mission count and Classifer Fess. They do not get their classifiers posted apparently.

Since I kow when I start doing the scores that this shooter is DQ'd, I DQ them before I start, no pioint in entering 6 stages only to DQ him then. If he were scored on a stage by stage basis, his scores are wiped to zero when the DQ is posted. Same end result.

Also as has been said, you DQ, you do not get a match refund, the club keeps the money. USPSA gets their share, fair enough, we have to buy insurance in case your DQ is more than just a shot into the berm. I am in favor of No Score if you DQ, no refund if you DQ. Come back next time and hopefully you'll have learned something so that you don't have a repeat performance.

Also remember no one gets DQ'd! You DQ yourself, the RO just tells you that you have done it.

Jim Norman

[TriggerT]

Also remember no one gets DQ'd! You DQ yourself, the RO just tells you that you have done it.

Jim Norman

Excellent point! And something to remember when/if it happens.

[Dead Buff]

As with so many things in life....you get those shooters that were DQ'ed and those that will be DQ'ed .....and guess what - its all your own fault......

[Vince Pinto]

The official reply I received from my old mate John Amidon is:

""USPSA allows any classifiers shot prior to the DQ, to be entered, the monies and scores are then sent up line. The reason behind this, is a classifier is a special stage set aside from the match, the score on that stage would not be calculated for match results if there were a DQ, but for their classification, it would be entered."

-:which sounds entirely reasonable to me.

[Barrettone]

Thanks for checking Vince...I was just curious. I wondered what would happen, if a competitor was, say, trying to get classified right before a major match for the following month. If this person didn't get classified because of their DQ (even though they shot the classifier before the DQ), would they still get their desperately needed classification. Seemed to me, that it could raise a stink. They would have a somewhat valid argument since they paid for the classifier. IMHO, they shouldn't get it because they DQ'd (that is if the the mission count fee stays with the club), but Mr. Amidon is the ultimate authority on the issue in our region, and I respect his decision. Our rules aren't perfect, but I believe they are the best thing going!!! Thanks again Vince for doing the legwork...It wasn't the answer I expected, and I'm sure the others are a little shocked too!!!

Jeff

[Barrettone]

Jim Norman:

Are you sure it didn't count for this fellow, or was it a mistake? This fella was apparently given a raw deal, if we go by what Vince and Amidon are saying. Maybe he was DQ'd before he shot the classifier???

Jeff

[SRT Driver]

We had a shooter receive a match DQ for a safety infraction on the last stage of a match.

His scores were entered up until the DQ. The classifier was stage 1. His hit factor, points and time appear in the results with a DQ for place and 0 for stage points and percentage. His name also appears on the web file produced by EZScore. The hit factor is 0, however.

The report did include him for activity fee and classifier fee.

10.2.3 covers the scoring issue. But EZScore allows the scores prior to the DQ to stay in the results unless the competitor is DQ'd in EZScore before any stage scores are entered. Then nothing appears in the stage results and the competitor is listed as DQ'd in the final results.

[Vince Pinto]

Hi guys,

It might be easier to understand this issue if you consider each COF as part of one or more tests.

A "regular" (non-classifier") stage is only one part of an "N part" test called a match, whereas a classifer stage can be part of two tests (i.e. a match and a grading system).

If you complete a COF but then get a match DQ, your participation in the "match test" has ended prematurely, because that particular test requires you to "answer all questions". However classifiers are tests in and of themself so, once successfully completed, they stand.

And participation in each test requires a separate entry fee, so these are treated separately too.