DougCarden Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Alright, my sunburned self is cooled off in front of the puter now . Having spent around 8hours at the range today I have more questions than answers for the people who have shot the Action Pistol matches. All questions are for Metallic sight pistol: Which sight set up is dominant or liked by iron sights. I currently run regular Bomar rear with brazos .090 FO on all my 1911s, gives me the best sight picture for running at speed for USPSA or Steel. Would the wider Bullseye "fill up the rear blade" front sight be better? I never liked them so I know this is probably a moot point, but I am willing to try something different if it will give me a true advantage. The load I shot today will shoot a cloverleaf group touching at 25yds with my open gun/Dot, but I usually have a group of three rounds within 1.5 in of each other, and then the other three open up with the stock gun. I can shoot great groups with the open gun, but then with the irons it opens up without me calling the flyers. Minute of plate (MOP) today with the loads were right on at 35yds and in, so I had no problems hitting the plates if I held my mouth just right. I am about to start experimenting with .356 bullets. I know Wil Schueman is a big proponent of using .356 bullets in .355 bores for best accuracy. I know that I need to shoot more groups, and will. Just wondering what I am missing, besides the plates..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Just looking at Rob Letham's iron sight Bianchi gun it says he uses a Dawson FO front. You may wish to send a message as to width. Rob and Kippi have been very responsive with their answers to me in the near past. I'd share my setup, but I suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 Thanks for the reply, BigDave. You dont suck, BTW. I have been following your trials and tribulations and was looking forward to meeting you at the Cup. However my son decided to come early and I got to re-read Brian's book numerous times in the hospital. I too have been to Robbie's site, and have been perusing his equipment. I have had the good fortune to be squadded with him in the past, and he was always frank about his equipment and why. Good stuff. I was told that our Mover should done within the week. I have two wonderful people that have shot the Cup that are going to be our match directors, so hopefully we can get something going on in Eastern Iowa. I just loaded up some loads that had really low SD with Titegroup. I threw some Zero 121jhps(.356 bullets) on them and will see what works. I chronoed over 45 loads last Saturday looking for low SD, and found 5. I have now about 30 more loads to chrono and try as well. I am still tempted to buy an Schuman AET barrel, might wait for my clothing allowance at work. If this batch of loads wont get anything under 2in. at 25 yds, The AET will come! Thanks again, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 DougC, Where in Iowa? Abt the front sight.. I've got a .125 on my Met sight Super and found it too wide at 50. .90 should be nice but how wide is your rear notch? I like VV N320 in my loads. TG is OK but VV seems to work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I shot metallic for years. I found there was a fine line between what will work and what will not. It is important to remember that as the clearance between the foresight and rear sight notch reduces, the front sight becomes fuzzy. If you get it wrong there will be a tendency to shoot high under pressure. A quick check is to take deliberate aim, then raise the foresight out of the rear notch. If the foresight gets sharper in focus, you need to decrease the width of the foresight, or increase the rear sight notch. The less time you have to take aim, the more gap you need. With NRA you have plenty of time so you can get closer to the limits. I favor a narrower foresight, but then I also need glasses. GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 Thanks for the info, guys. SRT Driver, 10 miles from Iowa City, right off I80. As for glasses, I already have a beefed up prescription for my shooting glasses, helps with the front sight! I will give the vv320 a shot as well! Thanks again, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Della Bella Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 TGO didnt use a FO this year at the cup. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantJ Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Doug VV N320 is a tad faster than WW231 You may like to try VV N330 as well, it is a tad slower and is softer in recoil. GrantJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Doug, If you still want one more persons thoughts, here they are. Try N320 , about 4.6 or 4.7 and a Zero 115jhp should make it. OAL 1.250. As for sights, I have only tried Met. Sight a few times, but I know one local guy round here who consistently wins that category is an old schooler, who much prefers a black post front with a black Bo-mar rear. It is not faster, but not that many people have problems making the times. The all black does however give you a nice, clear, crisp sight picture. I put a fiber optic on my Met. gun and now wish I hadnt. Just something to kick around, its a personal choice, but I would not count the all black out. I would agree with SRT that thinner may be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Thanks for the info, guys. I am now convinced that my gun is accurate. I am also questioning using the .090 for shooting tight groups off the bench. I am going to work on more group work, but I think keeping the "gaposis" on both sides even while shooting groups is hurting me. I am going to try with a wider front sight and see how that goes. Keep em coming, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 I shot the practical today, shot the most at 25 and 50yds. Here are some observations. I took the FO out of my sight, I like black on black better for this game. My next gun will have a .100 width sight, the .090 gives too much wiggle room on the 25 and 50yd shots. Great for steel,but not this game IMHO. At the 25 I noticed that my first target group opened up, in the 10ring, then my second target was much tighter. It didnt matter which side I tried first. I chalk it up to getting a good grip on the first target, and having the good grip on the second. It is going to take me awhile to "learn" the aiming point on the target for all distances, but it was fun trying to do better each time. Black on black sights helped on the plates at 25yds as well. Not happy with my groups at 50, but who is.... One question, can you go prone at the 25 or 50yd line in metallic sight? Later, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 The 50 yd line on the Practical is the only place, for any class, where prone is allowed. I'm speaking only of the 4 'Cup events, being Plates, Practical, Mover and Barricade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Today the local IDPA match was cancelled due to rain ... . . . but . . . . . . the range is the same place where we shoot NRA AP. I asked one of the members if I could stay (as his guest) and shoot the plates for a while. I shot 24 runs on the plates at 15 yards and I think I learned more about shooting plates in that 15-20 minutes than I have in the last ten years of shooting. I learned that if I put my front sight on the top 1/3 of the plate, aligned it in the rear notch, then pressed the trigger without disturbing the position of the sights, the plate would fall down. Now, intellectually I knew this was how it was done, but I never really saw it in action or made the feedback connection. I think I am finally starting to learn how to do it. I also finally realize that people with (access to) plate racks have a huge advantage. Shooting paper plates is almost the same in terms of the fundamentals, but you don't get the immediate feedback (both visual and audible) as with a plate rack or pepper poppers. So ... how many thousand times will I have to shoot the plates before I truly believe I can hit them every time from any distance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Rhino I have a plate rack and you see how well I did on the June match good luck,brother.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallTheBall Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 The only place I have access to a plate rack is when I'm shooting the monthly match. I found that if I put six paper plates out it in a row and shoot them I can easily see the bullet holes against the white paper background. I think it's a cheap way to get some indication of how I should do when I shoot a match. I must agree that shooting plates is fun! Paper of metallic, but I prefer metallic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maui1911 Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 maui 1911 doug im useing montana gold bullets 115jhp, with 4.7gr of n320, and am getting sub 1"inch groups at 35yards, with my stock gun, you could give that a try and see what you get. im useing a nowlin barrel as well if that makes a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 I cant get MGs to group well in my 9mm Nowlin barrel, but they work well in my Schumann 9SC barrel, go figure! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Have you slugged your barrels to see what diameter they really are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Rhino, It is a little over .355, I have it written down somewhere. Lead 122fps sized .356 do well at 50yds in it, but I have tried .355 and .356 bullets at 50yds in this particular barrel and gave up and went back to my 9Supercomp that will do around 2.5in at 50yds with crap brass and bulf factory bullets. I cant wait to get new brass and load my sierras, xtps, and speer bullets! When I get the capital I will be buying a new Schumann 9x19 AET barrel! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Steve Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 How do you all get past the 42-44 mark? I can clean the plates at all the distances but can not seem to put it all together. I have missed 5 plates at 15 yrds and went clean the rest of the way. Or be clean untill my first run at 25 then leave 4 standing, and proceed to go clean on the last run. I need some friggin help. I shoot a 125 cast bullet and 4grs of AA#2 out of a Kimber Metallic sight gun with a 9mm Kart barrel. I don't remember what size I sized the bullets. I put it in the sizer two years ago and haven't taken it out. But I believe it is .356. Dirty Steve, OUt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Dirty Steve, If your gun is accurate enough to hit a plate out to that distance, you need to look no further than at yourself as so why you are missing the plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Steve, for whatever it is worth, the plates are more of a mind screw than anything. If you measure them out I am pretty sure they are the same size as the 8 ring on a D1. Anyone who has cleaned the plates can tell you that the first time you clean them, as soon as you realize it might happen, you start shakin like a dog shitting razor blades. Only way to shoot 48 is to shoot 1 plate at a time, 48 times. In a different thread someone talked about focusing on results, rather than shooting. Just shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 p.s. If you really want some practical (as opposed to theoretical) help, PM Action Pistolero and just ask. Kevin shoots plates (and everything else) ohh so pretty. He makes it look like a machine at work, it doesnt even look like it takes effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Mike, Thanks for the compliment. I try to hit the center of each plate on my first run to give me an aiming point for the rest. I try to hit the same spot every time. If I don't hit the mark I usually still hit the plate. If your just aiming at the plate sometimes you veer off the plate before the shot breaks. Steve runs the matches in San Antonio that I have shot for the last 4 years. He was having problems in Oct. and I shot the gun and found the shots going left, I believe. If anything Steve needs to learn to use that little screw on the side of the rear sight. The one commonly known as the windage adjustment to the rest of us. Just picking, Steve. If I can ever get the damn slide and frame fitted on my new STI I will be playing with Metallic. The little experience that I have shooting the plates with one I have found that I am constantly changing my aiming points at the different distances. When I get things ironed out I plan on sighting the gun in at every distance so that I can aim at the same point on the plate just like my Open gun. I'll adjust the sight at each yard line. Steve can give you some helpful info himself. We were shooting the State match in Lake Charles and Steve said to me "be sure your mags are seated all the way". I remember thinking that I haven't had that problem with this gun. Sure enough, I was shooting the mover at the 25 yard line and only got one shot off!!!! I check that every time now. Did you find out anything about the match at Winamac? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 "thread drift" Does anyone have contact info for the Winimac? matches or dates. I have myself and a couple of guys interested in shooting the match prior to the cup. Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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