Hi-Power Jack Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 the bullets are measuring .3535-.354. That's common - I haven't found a .355 bullet yet from Zero or MG You can also try a .356 bullet (lead or FMJ) - that might help, also. (A little less powder:) Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Going to order some PD's fmj's tomorrow and try those. Hopefully that'll help, but.... I really have to ask, if the measurement of MG and Zero's often come up under .355, why would those be any better than X-Treme plated bullets? And I know and shoot with a lot of really good shooters than have been using X-Treme's for years and love them. I know not each gun is the same, but the bullets were measuring really consistent, so if the size is normal, I'd like to understand more the difference of why one is better than the other. I know there are a lot of threads "plated v. fmj", but honestly, never got many facts out of any of them, just personal opinions. Also, to touch on crimp again, should I try crimping slightly harder? I remember pulling a Miwall bullet a while ago and seeing it about cut through the plating, yet, those rounds are more accurate than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBBB Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Based on my experience: 1) Larger diameter is better. I would rather have a bullet that is slightly oversize than undersize any day. I am not surprised you are not getting good results with bullets that are 0.001 to 0.0015 undersize. I would suppose (I haven't tested this) that since a jacket is so much harder and tougher than plating that it would be more forgiving in this regard. Plating is fairly easy to damage. Bullets with damaged plating do not fly straight. 2) I think you are probably headed in the wrong direction on the crimp. The bullets are already undersized. You are already crimping them hard enough to put marks on the plating. This can lead to both reduced diameter and damaged plating. Crimping them more will probably make this worse not better. If it were me I would taper crimp them (in a separate step) only enough to close the bell on the case mouth. I would test them for setback by either cycling dummy rounds or the push on the bench top test. If I was satisfied the bullets were not moving (which could be an issue since your bullets are undersized) I would leave them alone. Maybe (just guessing) the combination of them being undersize and the crimp is hurting your accuracy. I think trying some jackets bullets as someone else suggested is a good idea. If you find you get good results with those then you at least have a basis for thinking that you have some kind of baseline for making a good load. You could then go back to the plated bullets. Look at the crimp and other factors that you think might impact their performance. At the end of the day if the jacketed bullets work for you and the plated ones do not you can always sell the plated ones to someone who is satisfied with how they work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Cool, thanks for the response, that did help me understand a bit more... Definitely already set on trying the PD's, I just like to know all aspects about what I do, not just that they didn't work, but why. And regarding the crimp, cool, I kind of thought it was fine. I do random tests for setback using both methods you mentioned above, and haven't gotten setback on any tested, as well as the measurement being in spec. I wish I had some still, but when I get the PD FMJ's in, I'll try those and report back... Again, my sincere thank yous to you all for the help and suggestions. I was kind of stumped and at a fork in the road with possible solutions, and now have an avenue to go down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Definate yes to trying jacketed bullets. No to more crimp. Just get the flare out, no more. No reason,even with a Glock ,that you can't shoot tight groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Get some real jacketed bullets. Load them and get your confidence back. haha, I like this idea. I actually skipped last weekends match because of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Definate yes to trying jacketed bullets. No to more crimp. Just get the flare out, no more. No reason,even with a Glock ,that you can't shoot tight groups. Cool thanks, yeah, my goal on adjusting the crimper was to just get the flare out, as that is mostly what I have read... And hey, I love my Glock! It used to shoot tight groups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reptoid Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Definate yes to trying jacketed bullets. No to more crimp. Just get the flare out, no more. No reason,even with a Glock ,that you can't shoot tight groups. Cool thanks, yeah, my goal on adjusting the crimper was to just get the flare out, as that is mostly what I have read... And hey, I love my Glock! It used to shoot tight groups... Here are some generalities that might help you get better results out of your Glock; Glocks generally like fat bullets, I.E .3555" to .356" Mine likes Zero's or Hornadys the best, especially the Hornady 125 HAP or the Zero #161 125gr JHP. But it shoots the #136 and # 162 almost as well. Unlike Jack, I have never found Zeros to be undersize with my #136 and #162's miking right at .355" and the #161's @ .356". I can't say the same for all other brands. The Hornady HAP's are .356". My Glocks shoot noticibly better with JHP's or Truncated cone's than with RN's If your crimp die is squeezing the loaded round at all,, it will affect the accuracy. I use a std Taper crimp die set to barely remove the bell. WW231 should shoot very accurate and make minor out of your 19 @ about 4.3 to 4.6 grs. with a 124 or 125. I use 4.2 grs for PF 131 but that's with a 5" tactical Barrel. With the above bullets, I use 1.130" OAL which works best in my Glocks and XD's. You can buy a sample of 100 from Zero, or PD if you call them and you can get a box of 100 Hornady HAP's on line from Graf's, Powder Vally, etc. just to try. Hope that helps Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonm1 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 After reading the thread I get the impression you have only been loading hot lately and you made some improvements to your reloading process. That sounds like a time to start over if you are not happy with your reloads. Start at the beginning powder charge and work up a load. I'd recommend shooting groups at 50' rather than 30'(10 yards) so you can see more clearly the differences in what each powder charge makes. I use a chronograph when I work up loads and load at least 25 rounds of each powder charge. You might use ten if you just shoot groups without the chrono. I like a ten shot group and ten shot chrono average and the extra five are for chrono problems. It sounds like you are all over the crimping and got lots of advice there so other basic areas to double check are overall length and powder charge. I can say it does suck when you run out of bullets before you have a load worked up. Been there dun it. That's a good time to think about trying another bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Here are some generalities that might help you get better results out of your Glock; Glocks generally like fat bullets, I.E .3555" to .356" ... Don Thanks for the bullet info, since I'm about to place an order, it's a perfect time to change and try a different bullet. Talking with one of the shooters at my range, he gave me a couple lead bullets to push through the barrel to get the land markings on the bullet, and by measuring the marks, I'd be able to tell the exact size of my barrel and better tell if it might like a slightly larger bullet. Makes sense to me, just haven't had time to try that in the past few days... Anyone tried this method? After reading the thread I get the impression you have only been loading hot lately and you made some improvements to your reloading process. That sounds like a time to start over if you are not happy with your reloads. Start at the beginning powder charge and work up a load. I'd recommend shooting groups at 50' rather than 30'(10 yards) so you can see more clearly the differences in what each powder charge makes. I use a chronograph when I work up loads and load at least 25 rounds of each powder charge. You might use ten if you just shoot groups without the chrono. I like a ten shot group and ten shot chrono average and the extra five are for chrono problems. It sounds like you are all over the crimping and got lots of advice there so other basic areas to double check are overall length and powder charge. I can say it does suck when you run out of bullets before you have a load worked up. Been there dun it. That's a good time to think about trying another bullet. Right, I've been mainly loading hotter recently since I had similar results loading lighter, and the powder is burning cleaner now than it was before... But I have made improvements to my reloading process and am more fluid on the press... I am going to start a new load workup since I'll be using fmj's instead of plated, and am going to start low. I, like you mentioned, do always use a chrono first, then group, as I like to keep the grouping and chrono'ing a separate stage. I'm getting to be best friends with the clubs chrono! Edited March 16, 2012 by otis_bartleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Get some .38 Super Bullets, the WW 130gr FMJ are good. When the 17L models first came out I used those to make major and they were very accurate. Main reason I suggest them is that they are also .356 which I think would help your accuracy problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 125gr JHP - C from Zero, their number is #136 from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I'm about to place an order Monday, Precision Delta's seem to be a good price and are listed as .355 on their site. What do you guys think about these, and have any suggestions on a good place to buy Zero's, and are they better than PD's, and why, or is that more a per gun thing? Edited March 18, 2012 by otis_bartleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Raven Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I have used the Montana Gold JACKETED bullets weighing 124 grains in all my 9mm pistols (Springfield, Glock, and STI) and they have all performed well. The two bullets I have used are the 124 gr. JHP's and the 124 gr. CMJ's. Every single one of these bullets I have ever checked for diameter show either .3550", .3555", or .3560". The best load in my Glock G19 Gen 3 pistol has been the Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP loaded to a COAL of 1.135" over 4.2 grains of TiteGroup with CCI small pistol primers and in mixed brass. Average MV is 1112 FPS with excellent accuracy. Crimp measures .377" to .378". Good luck with your load development! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis_bartleh Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Well, I got some Precision Delta's in, and they all measured up right. Loaded some up and went to the range, much better! Now to start my entire process over, but with good bullets... Thanks for all the advice, looks like I won't be buying any more X-treme's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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