New reloader and problems with .45

[Alan W]

Hello all,

I just recently purchased a new 550 package from Brian with intentions of reloading primarily for my .45's. I'm using Clays powder, Berry's 230 RN bullets, Winchester primers and Federal brass that I have kept from newly purchased rounds. My first batch of 100 seemed fine and cycled through my SIG Scorpion without issue. However, when attempting to use in an FNP Tactical I suffered chronic FTF and FTE's (close to 50%!) The round count on the FN was 950 without ANY malfunctions. Is the double stack FN that sensitive to reloads vs the single stack Scorpion? As a newbie to reloading am I missing something simple?

Thanks for the input.

Alan

[Youngeyes]

First, welcome. Second, check your crimp and OAL carefully. What runs in one gun won't run in another. With double stack you also get more interaction between rounds in the magazine which further can complicate issues. I only shoot single stack but notice a differance between different guns. Use your barrel from the FNP as a case guage. If you shoot more factory stuff keep them separate by gun and check for differences, ie case bulge and diameter. Luck.

[DWFAN]

Hello all,

I just recently purchased a new 550 package from Brian with intentions of reloading primarily for my .45's. I'm using Clays powder, Berry's 230 RN bullets, Winchester primers and Federal brass that I have kept from newly purchased rounds. My first batch of 100 seemed fine and cycled through my SIG Scorpion without issue. However, when attempting to use in an FNP Tactical I suffered chronic FTF and FTE's (close to 50%!) The round count on the FN was 950 without ANY malfunctions. Is the double stack FN that sensitive to reloads vs the single stack Scorpion? As a newbie to reloading am I missing something simple?

Thanks for the input.

Alan

What load are you using? Does it have enough power to cycle the FNP ?

[See_Archie_Shoot]

My friend had an fnp45 that WWB wouldn't even cycle reliably. His had an incredably strong recoil spring.

Edited March 6, 2012 by CJcycles

[docatru]

I have several 1911's and an FNP-45 in which I use reloads.

All loads are with 200 gr. LSWC or 200 gr. Hornady XTP. OAL is 1.25. Light taper crimp.

3.7 Clays cycles the 1911s but won't cycle the FNP

3.9 Clays cycles the FNP but drops spent casings 1-2' feet away.

4.2 Clays, 6.9-7.3 gr of N350 all cycle the FNP but still only through the casings a few feet away.

Everything is reliable in the FNP as long as he powder is above 3.9 gr of Clays.

I really like how the FNP shoots. It is accurate and soft shooting. With full power loads it recoils about the same as a full size, steel framed 1911.

Let me know if I can help further.

DOC

[Alan W]

OK, here's my load data:

3.8 gr of Clays

C.O.L=1.21

Diameter=.424

I think that's all OK and very consistent with a new Federal 230 FMJ. So I'm guessing the 3.8 gr is not enough to cycle the FNP? I test fired more reloads and the few that eject only go a short distance while the factory rounds get chucked a good 6-8' away. How do you guys choose the grains to load? The Hodgdon numbers range from 3.5 to 4.

Sincere thanks for your help.

Alan

[freakshow10mm]

Diameter = .424? Your crimp measures .424? If so, you're squeezing the hell out of the brass. .45 ACP crimp should measure between .469 and .471.

What "diameter" are you referring to?

[codemonkey001]

i have an FNP tactical and my load works in it. here's what i'm using:

5.6gr W231

Precision Delta 230 fmj

1.265 OAL

.470-.469 crimp

i don't think the FNP likes anything that's long, i think WWB is around 1.27X. i do know that i've got 1 load for my double stack polymer pistols and my 1911's. i may have gone down as low as 1.260 OAL, i'll double check tonight.

also, what factory ammo where you using that worked well for you? I would take OAL measurements from that. i was shooting Federal 230gr ball ammo through mine and it worked well so that's how i came about the length.

Edited March 7, 2012 by codemonkey001

[Alan W]

I'm measuring the width of the finished round at the base of the bullet in comparison to a new Federal round and they are the same. Fits nicely in the Dillon case gauge also. The FNP has successfully cycled Federal 230 ball, Federal 230 Hydra-shoks, to cheapo Tula. Matter of fact, mine has never had a problem with any ammo until my reloads. It sounds like my Clays load is underpowered?

[45 Raven]

To ask the question again: What is the .424" diameter you referenced in your earlier post?

[gordonm1]

It sounds like you are low on powder charge for the gun to work. You are loading with a fast powder that does not create the gasses/recoil forces like medium powders do. The gun is meant for combat loads and probably +p loads with medium powders and probably wants more gas/recoil. You may need to ride the max powder charge line to get it to function with clays or try a slower powder. Lots of guys are not comfortable with loading to max and that's a solid reason why we don't all use clays.

loading for mutiple guns can be a pain. You could look for a softer recoil spring but I would bump up the charge first based on my reloading experience and confidence. Lots of guys load clays over book max with no explosions but that is their choice and not mine. I think I saw some overloads mentioned in your thread. I have shot lots of clays loaded at the max charge with no problems except what I say below.

I tried the book max 4.3gr charge with 200gr Lswc and did not make major power factor in my 4.25" barreled sig 220. That's the main reason I still have clays powder around the loading bench. It's great for low recoil and good accuracy.

[wes777]

work up powder to cycle, dont exceed max. pay attention to oal and crimp. Lee FCD usually solves allot of problems. Resize farther down case. Ensure concentricity. let the games begin. Check your reloading manual. CHAMBER CHECK YOUR RELOADS, if the dont fall in and fall out at home, your range time might be screwed.

Edited March 16, 2012 by wes777

[See_Archie_Shoot]

My friend figured out a good solution. He went and traded the fnp for another 1911. Problem solved.

Have you checked on getting a lighter spring for it?

Edited March 16, 2012 by CJcycles

[Quick Draw McGraw]

your issue may be the Berry Bullets. i had an older SIG GSR 1911 that would just choke on those plated bullets. Switched to a FMJ bullet (ZERO) and no more feeding issues. Also with the Berry's because they are plated you have to be careful with your crimp. Too much crimp can damage the bullet. Quite frankly i don't care for plated bullets. Just for giggles I loaded some in properly resized brass and then pulled the bullets. The bullets had been sized down (smaller diameter than before sizing) just from the process of seating the bullet. I also started measuring bullet diameter & length on the Berry's right out of the box before using them and found lots of inconsistencies from batch to batch (BTW so did a local reloading company who also stopped purchasing them). I no longer use plated bullets.

[DFinan]

If it helps any I just (with the last 30 days) got my XL650 setup and am loading .45 rounds for my HK 45, I just about have my loads figured out as put together 3 batchs working my way up from the low end. I started at 3.6 grains (gun cycled but ejecting brass stovepiped 90% of the time), 3.7 Grains (A lot better cycled, but still stovepiping about 25% of the time), the last test batch I ran at 3.8 and unless I was shooting around barricade or at a weird angle the gun ran without issue, probbaly going to try one more set at 3.85 or 3.9 grains and it should be fine. All this was with a HK45 (Full Size)

Mixed Large Primer Brass (mostly Monarch)

Winchester Large Pistol Primers

Clays Powder

230 grain Berrys Plated

and a 1.26" OAL

Hope the info helps.

[greenlion]

Hodgdon data is always conservative, sometimes to the extreme. Case in point: Using Win 231 powder and a 230 gr .45 bullet, Hodgdon has loads ranging from 4.2 to 5.3 grains for a max velocity of 832fps. Speer reloading manual lists loads ranging from 5.6 to 6.2 fro the same bullet and powder, with a max velocity of 858fps. That is a HUGE difference in powder charge. What I'm saying is, I'm never wary of using what Hodgdon calls their "maximum charge". I wish I could provide the same example with Clays powder, but Speer does not list it. I'm not in any way recommending you blindly go over the charge listed in Hodgdon's data until you find higher charges published somewhere else, but I do know that several of Hodgdon's published charge weights will not cycle my Glocks where Speers charge weights will.

[TCBDoubleTap]

When loading with Clays I get the best results with:

4.0 grains

OAL 1.245

CCI 300 primers

230 Gr. FMJ-RN

I've been using CBC (Magtech) once fired brass

Also, the crimp should be measured at the mouth of the case, not below the seated bullet.

I crimp mine to 0.470 - 0.471

Tom

[noylj]

Data in manuals is not conservative. It produced the pressure indicated with the gun and components used. Their loads should be set to the Maximum SAAMI COL for testing, which is too short for most reloaders. It would be at this point where one could say the factories are being conservative.

Your exact bullet, magazines, feed ramp, recoil spring, main spring, and barrel chamber will all affect what COL will work in a given gun. I am amazed that factory rounds are as universally adequate as they are.

As a point to start with COL, find the max COL for your bullet and barrel and back off 0.01". From there, you may try a bit shorter or longer until you find what feeds consistently.

Every bullet manufacturer uses a bullet design (and ogive) that they think is best. Thus, any change in bullet (even from one FMJ to another) may require a change in COL.

Don't load any rounds until you have loaded at least two dummy inert rounds and found a COL that fits your magazines, feeds, and chambers easily. No sense loading until you have some confidence that your loads will actually feed. Then, don't load more than 20 rounds before testing them at the range.

And, one more time, what was this diameter you measure at 0.424"? That's below .44 range for a dimension.

[greenlion]

Case in point:

The load I shoot most often is a 165 grain .40 S&W FMJ.

Hodgdon's data lists charges from 5.1 - 5.6 with a 1.125 overall length

Speer's data lists charges from 5.7 - 6.2 with a case length of 1.120 (note that the starting charge is HIGHER than Hogdgon's top charge)

That is a very big leap in charge weight AND the Speer data has a SHORTER overall case length. To me, it seems that either Speer is being completely wreckless with its data or Hodgdon is being conservative. I vote that Hodgdon is conservative, since Speer data has never blown up my guns or cases. You can find dozens of other examples if you look through the data long enough.