ChrisMcCracken Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I'm in my scheming mode, planning, hoping, and dreaming of my future gun and shooting aspirations. I had been planning on getting a VIP in .45 for concealed carry to replace my G30 and then saving up for a full custom sight tracker build in .40 to shoot Limited. This is largely complicated by limited funds and partially complicated by the fact that I'm already fully setup to reload in .45 and comfortable with that round. As a compromise, I though of getting one custom gun to somehow meet all of my carry, competition, and reloading needs. I could get a carry gun in .45 that switches easily to be a respectable L10 gun, and push full Limited aspirations further off into the future. What I would like is for it to have a hybrid sight tracker barrel, be as light as possible without compromising function, and be able to add and remove a full sized mag well easily. One compromise for the sake of concealed carry would likely be a 4.3" barrel. I would like to have the shortened grip of either the STI VIP or SVI's concealed carry, but I can't find any way to fit either with a full mag well. That puts one compromise for competition as having to pick a full size grip. To save weight, the plastic grip is probably best, as well as the shorter barrel/slide. I could lighten the slide with tri-top cuts and whatever other lightening the gunsmith thinks is appropriate. Here are some questions: Would an aluminum frame really be a problem for a competition gun? I've looked at some of the other threads, and I'm still torn in the weight saving vs. frame wear debate. Is there any way to get a mag well on either the VIP or SVI shortened grip? Has anyone tried competition speed reloads with the SVI shortened grip? They claim they have opened it up to simulate a mag well. How difficult is it to put on and take off the standard mag wells on the full size plastic grips? How easy would it be to conceal IWB a full 5" barrel and full size grip S_I without the magwell? Can anyone think of other ways to compromise between these two different demands on one gun? How much weight is saved with a short dust cover vs. full length? I like the look of the full length dust cover and the weight up front but worry about finding a holster and the total weight. I seriously wish SVI wasn't so expensive, as some of their options are incredible. Thanks! Edited March 6, 2012 by Erucolindon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If you're only looking to shoot L10, why limit yourself to double stack 2011s? You can run a single stack with a 10 round mag if you'd like. There are piles of people who own and carry 1911s in some form or another, for competition and personal protection. With me, money was really tight for a while and I liked the 45, so I got a full size 1911 5". I was able to load minor stuff for steel challenge, major for SS and L10 with just adding longer mags, and carried it with no real problems. It is big and a little less than comfortable, but I went with a small mag well so I didn't have to change over every time I carried it. When I realized the 1911/2011 platform was what I really shot best and enjoyed, I sold my other "range toys" and made a switch to the platform. a few years later, there's an iron sight and open 22 for range times (both I built!). The orginal carry Baer has a giant magwell and is getting a lighter trigger, but otherwise the same as I carried it. There is also an aluminum Springfield commander with laser grips that gets carried full time. Just a thought, but a single stack 1911 with an aluminum frame (yes they hold up, especially with lighter than factory loads) built to your specs would be easy enough to do, less than a full limited gun, and meet most of your demands pretty easily. Plus tuned SS mags are like $20, not $120 for silly double stacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have a great old beater 1911 5" that I've used for L10 already. My main reason for the double stack was to get 10+1 rounds while concealed. I love .45 for defense, and the more I have of it the better. I'm also already used to the thicker double stack sitting on my hip from my G30. Because I'm sure someone will ask, the reason I want to switch from the G30 is because I love the 1911 platform, and I want to carry what I compete with. I shoot glocks well but it takes a short adjustment, not what I want when pressured in a defensive situation. Thanks for the idea! Keep them coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Would an aluminum frame really be a problem for a competition gun? I've looked at some of the other threads, and I'm still torn in the weight saving vs. frame wear debate. On S_I frame, going aluminum will save some weight, but not like it does on a 1911 - there's less metal, after all. If you do a short/standard dust cover, it should be pretty light to begin with. Aluminum really isn't appropriate for a major PF competition gun, due to the wear factor. Is there any way to get a mag well on either the VIP or SVI shortened grip? Not that I know of... Has anyone tried competition speed reloads with the SVI shortened grip? They claim they have opened it up to simulate a mag well. How difficult is it to put on and take off the standard mag wells on the full size plastic grips? Trivial - you need a punch and hammer. Drive out the mainspring housing pin, remove or add the magwell, drive in the other mainspring housing pin (the magwell will need a longer pin than the stock one). Done. How easy would it be to conceal IWB a full 5" barrel and full size grip S_I without the magwell? Highly dependent on the clothing you wear and the holster you carry it in. The difference in barrel length isn't a big deal - a 5" gun and a 4.25" gun carry about the same, in that regard, because the barrel is inside your waistband. The grip is the issue. With an appropriate holster that positions the gun well for your body, it should be completely do-able - no worse than a full size 1911 with normal thickness grips, really (assuming no mag well, and 126mm, flush fit mags). I haven't tried, but I can probably conceal that under a moderately loose t-shirt (ie, it won't look baggy on me, but it's still not a tight t-shirt). If you wear a t-shirt with a button down over the top, it gets a lot easier. Just make sure the clothes look like they fit, or it'll be obvious that you're carrying even though you're not printing (yes, the bad guys know that white guys wearing baggy clothes are probably carrying, just like they know white non-Europeans carrying fanny packs are probably carrying... or if they're wearing "shoot me first" vests... ). Can anyone think of other ways to compromise between these two different demands on one gun? Fixed sights. Bushing barrel. Non-ambi safety. You could have a 2nd grip fit to the gun, and swap between a VIP length grip and a standard grip in a few minutes time (easy to do - if you can disassemble a 1911, you can swap the grip). That means you may not be able to just roll up to a match and shoot the gun, though. How much weight is saved with a short dust cover vs. full length? I like the look of the full length dust cover and the weight up front but worry about finding a holster and the total weight. It's a few ounces, don't know exactly - something like 3? I wouldn't want to carry a full length dust cover gun. But, a short dustcover, bushing barrel gun shoots very well. I shot one of those for a while in Limited at old power factor, and it did really well. The same gun with a bull barrel will shoot a tad softer, but not add a crap load of weight. Still, for carry, lighter is generally better. Also, I'd consider having it chambered in .40. It'll shoot a lot softer for competition. With modern duty ammo, all of the common duty calibers are equally effective in actual use (as long as you're using something that passes the FBI's battery of penetration tests - something like Gold Dot stuff...), so where .45 used to be king, 9mm and .40 are actually doing just as well, now. Being you might need several rounds per guy, and something like 50% of "social encounters" involve more than 1 bad guy (that's 2+), moving to .40 gives you one or possibly two more bad guys per magazine. Just FWIW, I'd be happy to shoot a bushing barreled, short/narrow dustcover gun in .40 all day long in competition ;-) If it were going to be competition only, I'd put a bull barrel in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Because I'm sure someone will ask, the reason I want to switch from the G30 is because I love the 1911 platform, and I want to carry what I compete with. I shoot glocks well but it takes a short adjustment, not what I want when pressured in a defensive situation. There are probably two things you might want to consider in this project - the Glock has a pretty strong reliability advantage over a 1911 for carry (1911s typically need to be cleaned fairly often, unless they're built pretty loose, whereas the Glock can basically be stuffed with dirt and it'll run - in factory configuration anyway). And, if (God forbid) you do get involved in a "social situation", you may lose your carry gun - at least for some amount of time - and God knows what the guys in the evidence room are doing to it while they're got it. You'd be out your competition gun for some amount of time at best, and if that competition gun cost you a couple grand or more... and somehow gets damaged, lost, or forfeited, that's going to suck. The Glock costs less than, say, $700 after purchase and some new sights, etc - you can buy three or four for the cost of the project you're looking at. Anyway, just for what it's worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 When I was shooting limited back in the day, my off-duty gun was an aluminum framed STI Eagle in 9mm; no problem carrying it concealed. FY42385 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 XRe, thanks for the insights! 1. Short dust cover, check. 2. Not aluminum, check. 3. Fixed sights, I think is a definite, probably tritium novaks. 4. I hadn't thought of the weight difference between a bushing barrel and bull barrel, much less the hybrid sight tracker. One way to bring the weight down from the hybrid would be to trim off excess part of the raised rib leaving just enough for the sight. I think the strayer signature defense gun that SVI featured in front sight had this sort of setup and looked awesome! I don't know why I'm hung up on the idea of getting a sight tracker, just seems like a bell and whistle I like the idea of. 5. I think I'm going to stick to .45 for now, partially related to increased diameter for punching holes in bad guys but mainly because I'm all setup to reload .45 and have a nice soft shooting load already. I generally carry an extra mag with me if I'm concealed, so 21 should be sufficient. 6. I like the idea of two different grips, but when I asked in the past someone made it sound like it was a major hastle. Can anyone else say for or against switching grips? Konkapot, thanks for the reassurance for carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hello: Switching grips takes no time at all to do. Depending on your size and holster choice a full size 2011 grip with no magwell is no problem. You could have 2 top ends built for your lower. I have a couple of pistols I built this way. I have a 9mm with a 4.180" bull barrel and a 5" 9mm bushing barrel on the same lower. I also have a 6" 40S&W bushing barrel and a 5" 40S&W bushing barrel also. I just change out the top and they are ready to go. Just another option for you. I also have a STI VIP in 40 with an aluminum frame. It carries well in a Milt Sparks VM-II for a 4" and a 4.25" holsters. I did have to stretch them a little so they would work. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Get a STI Eagle in a 40s&w and build on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hello: Switching grips takes no time at all to do. Depending on your size and holster choice a full size 2011 grip with no magwell is no problem. You could have 2 top ends built for your lower. I have a couple of pistols I built this way. I have a 9mm with a 4.180" bull barrel and a 5" 9mm bushing barrel on the same lower. I also have a 6" 40S&W bushing barrel and a 5" 40S&W bushing barrel also. I just change out the top and they are ready to go. Just another option for you. I also have a STI VIP in 40 with an aluminum frame. It carries well in a Milt Sparks VM-II for a 4" and a 4.25" holsters. I did have to stretch them a little so they would work. Thanks, Eric Good to know on the grips. That makes me want to build maybe a full 5" upper then have a full race grip with magwell and a short carry grip. Also very good to know about the VMII. I currently carry my G30 in a Milt Sparks VM-II and love it! I expect that could be just as viable for a full size 5" just need stretching over the trigger guard. Or I could get the carry grip in SVI aluminum with the rounded traditional trigger guard. That might not take any stretching then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Get a STI Eagle in a 40s&w and build on that. The Eagle does seem like a great platform, I'm just reluctant to switch to .40 when I'm already setup for .45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 buy a good used STI 40 limited gun, and a ruger 380. Be done with it. Buy once cry once. Your gonna end up with a noncompetitive game gun, and a carry gun thats to dang heavy to carry and be stuck with a gun you cant sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Get a STI Eagle in a 40s&w and build on that. The Eagle does seem like a great platform, I'm just reluctant to switch to .40 when I'm already setup for .45. If you're wanting to eventually get to Limited division then a 40s&w is the only way to go. Sell/trade your 45acp dies and get some 40s&w dies,I'm sure you can find everything you need here on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here is my carry gun. I carry it 40+ hours per week. It's a heavy gun, but is comfortable to carry is a belt slide holster. It's a 4.5" 9mm Sight Tracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 SV Cop, that is a sexy carry gun! Can you PM me the specs? I'm looking to build my dream limited gun this season, and that might be it... Or just let me borrow it As far as the argument that you shouldn't spend too much on a carry gun: The chance that we ever need to draw is small. the chance we need to fire is smaller yet. But if I ever NEED a carry gun in an emergency, I will not care at all what happens to it after. All I want is for me to be comfortable with it enough that it goes bang and makes a hole where I point it. I'll go get another one without even thinking about it. My life (to me anyway) is worth more than a $200 kel tec or a $4000 SVI any day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 SV Cop, I have to agree that is one awesome blaster. I'm amazed at the quality of the SVI builds and wouldn't hesitate to get one if I could afford it. Seriously, that's an good looking gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumford Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here is my carry gun. I carry it 40+ hours per week. It's a heavy gun, but is comfortable to carry is a belt slide holster. It's a 4.5" 9mm Sight Tracker. What trigger weight do you specify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I totally get the idea of not wanting your gun seized after a shooting. I hope I NEVER have to use any of mine, but if I do......I'll deal with the separation anxiety, until she returns. Stevie, I'll PM those to you tonight. Trigger weight is 3.5#...feels like 2# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I totally get the idea of not wanting your gun seized after a shooting. I hope I NEVER have to use any of mine, but if I do......I'll deal with the separation anxiety, until she returns. Of course, you have an advantage on the "getting her back" angle that a bunch of us don't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I totally get the idea of not wanting your gun seized after a shooting. I hope I NEVER have to use any of mine, but if I do......I'll deal with the separation anxiety, until she returns. Of course, you have an advantage on the "getting her back" angle that a bunch of us don't have I hope I never have to find out Super Dave!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ok, enough oogling the pretty hardware. As much as I might want it, that won't make it mine. I will say the prospect of not losing my carry gun after a defensive situation lends some merit to using the G30 for now. I still would like to carry at least the same platform that I compete with if not the same gun. I could continue with my trusty Glock for now and keep saving for the Limited dream build, and the reloading stuff to accomodate .40 to be fully competitive in hardware if not in skill yet. It's just hard to save past what it would cost me to get the VIP I have coveted. The prospect of making one gun fit both demands at least would give me the satisfaction that saving up so much would meet all of my needs/wants. For now, at least my carry needs are met adequately, and my competition platform is most wanting. I'll have to think on it. In the meantime, does anyone else have something to contribute to the original questions? Anyone race a 2011 that they carry concealed? If so, what compromises did you make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I hope I never have to find out Super Dave!! You and me both ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ok, to throw another twist into the matter that I hadn't though about before. One of the other threads active at the moment mentions a SVI with a .45 bull barrel and a .40 bushing barrel fitted to the same frame/slide. I think this would fit a lot of my needs, here is the proposed build: 4.3" barrel and slide .40 bull barrel for competition .45 bushing barrel for concealed carry - to save weight Tri-top and other smooth concealed carry friendly slide lightening for weight and responsivity Short dust cover for weight savings Full size grip - SVI steel with full magwell or full size plastic with magwell Possibly have the magwell blended a little better than usual to a smaller profile for carry and at least try to leave it on all the time, like SV_COP (optional concealed carry grip later - likely aluminum from SVI with the traditional round profile trigger guard to better fit IWB holster) I would probably have the trigger set in the 3-3.5# range rather than 2# as a compromise for concealed safety. Does this sound feasible? I'm guessing that having a 2nd barrel fitted wouldn't add too much to the cost of the total build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Why don't you just buy a Springfield EMP in .40 and then build whatever you want for competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Actually for a carry gun I prefer and have a crisp 4# trigger pull. More lawyer proof. Richard Edited March 8, 2012 by chirpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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