Running Man

[DocMedic]

Thoughts?

Thinking about creating this stage at a local match.

Edited March 5, 2012 by DocMedic

[herky]

I like it. Simple, straight forward, and all about doing it fast.

[JakeMartens]

What shooting challenge do you have in running from start position to furthest position away?

[CHA-LEE]

What is the shooting skill test of forcing the shooter to run all the way across the shooting area before they can start shooting? You are testing running ability, not shooting ability. If you look at stage creation from an aspect of making "Shooting Challenges" then you start making stages that get shooters to the "Shooting process" sooner and have less "non shooting" requirements.

I have a personal set of stage creation rules that revolve around the number 4 which I follow when creating stages. If I stay within the requirements of all these rules I usually come up with a good balance of shooting and non shooting challenges for stages.

Rule 1 - The shooter shouldn't need to take more than four full strides/steps before they can start shooting

Rule 2 - The shooter shouldn't need to perform more than 4 gun/prop manipulation activities before starting shooting

Rule 3 - It should not take more than 4 seconds for the average shooter to start shooting after the buzzer goes off

Rule 4 - If you have a shooting position that takes a top level GM more than 4 seconds of continuous shooting to complete then the shots are probably too difficult for the average shooter or you can see way more targets than you should from a single position.

Edited March 6, 2012 by CHA-LEE

[Skydiver]

I've seen a similar stage last year, but it was all reloading devices and unloaded gun on barrels, and there were 3 barrels. It was shooter's choice on how to stage guns and ammo. It wasn't more than 3-4 steps between start positions and barrels. The stage designer had made it an interesting risk vs. reward scenario for L-10, Production, and Single Stack shooters. For Open and Limited shooters, it was just a race to get gunned up as quickly as possible. I don't recall if it was revolver friendly, though.

[DocMedic]

The reason behind the sprint portion is too elevate ones HR while trying to shoot precisely and fast as possible. Maybe I pulling a little frmy experience from 3gun. But I find we don't shoot enough under physical stress, and I believe its just as important shooting skill as anything else. Originally I wanted the shooter to retrieve the pistol before allowing to retrieve the first mag, to simulate "sucide" sprints but decided against it. What I really wanted to do was place stairs in the middle with cooper tunnels in between shooting positions

[Skydiver]

The reason behind the sprint portion is too elevate ones HR while trying to shoot precisely and fast as possible. Maybe I pulling a little frmy experience from 3gun. But I find we don't shoot enough under physical stress, and I believe its just as important shooting skill as anything else. Originally I wanted the shooter to retrieve the pistol before allowing to retrieve the first mag, to simulate "sucide" sprints but decided against it. What I really wanted to do was place stairs in the middle with cooper tunnels in between shooting positions

LOL! Next you you know, you'll have a Stairmaster connected to a generator. As long as the shooter has the Stairmaster going, bobbers will continue to appear above hard cover. (The generator also charges up a defibrillator in case it's needed to resuscitate the shooter.)

Edited March 5, 2012 by Skydiver

[ArmdCtzn]

I think making the shooters run is a great idea. I do it all the time. I couldn't disagree more

with the previous statements against it. What could be more practical than having to engage targets

with your heart rate up and breathing heavy?

I had to laugh at your stairs comment. I just built a set to use as a prop this season!

[CHA-LEE]

Ok, lets get real about this situation. If someone runs a grand total of 15 - 20 yards from buzzer to the first shooting position and is out of breath or has an extremely elevated heart rate that person is EXTREMELY out of shape. It takes an extended duration (usually more than a minute at least) of constant exertion to elevate the heart and breathing rate to a point where it becomes an effect on shooting. Trying to fit that into a 15 - 20 second stage isn't going to work. I would be more concerned about the extremely out of shape and elderly shooters more than anything. Usually the elderly shooters know better than to over exert themselves but some people may over do it and end up having a heart attack. Do you really want to artificially create a situation that puts a shooters health at risk like that?

I am sorry, shooters come to matches to shoot. So why don't we let them do that? If you want to participate in a foot race or fitness test then sign up for a track meet.

Edited March 6, 2012 by CHA-LEE

[ArmdCtzn]

I think that shots are more challenging even after running only twenty yards or so than they are just drawing and engaging them. If I want to stand and shoot, I'll shoot Bullseye, PPC, or a falling plate match. I like movement and obstacles, the more running, climbing, crawling, and props, the more I like it. Movement is big part of what seperates IPSC shooting from traditional stand-and-shoot match shooting for me. If I can walk through a stage and shoot every target from an upright position, its probably not a very exciting stage for me.

There are lots of shooting games, when I am too old for USPSA, I'll shoot steel matches with no movement. I don't think action pistol matches should be tailored to be accessible to every age group or physical condition. I think it is up to the shooter to decide when he can't physically meet the challenge.

[Graham Smith]

There's a fine line between challenging and annoyingly difficult. What's the skill level of the shooters? Are they all B and up? If not, then do you really want a lot of running around and a star in front of no shoots and targets with a lot of blocked out areas? Novice and D shooters could easily end up with a zero on a stage like this and that's no fun for anyone.

[CHA-LEE]

I think that shots are more challenging even after running only twenty yards or so than they are just drawing and engaging them. If I want to stand and shoot, I'll shoot Bullseye, PPC, or a falling plate match. I like movement and obstacles, the more running, climbing, crawling, and props, the more I like it. Movement is big part of what seperates IPSC shooting from traditional stand-and-shoot match shooting for me. If I can walk through a stage and shoot every target from an upright position, its probably not a very exciting stage for me.

There are lots of shooting games, when I am too old for USPSA, I'll shoot steel matches with no movement. I don't think action pistol matches should be tailored to be accessible to every age group or physical condition. I think it is up to the shooter to decide when he can't physically meet the challenge.

I am all for running around like a monkey once the shooting starts. I just think its pointless to have a bunch of running around and non shooting activities to complete before you can even start shooting.

[Dr. Phil]

Perhaps the game and the name could be changed to the "walking kind of fast till I start shooting, and then running" man... Or, how about the "running, stair stepping, keeling over from a weak heart" man? Never mind, just thinking out loud... +1 on running shorter, shooting sooner, etc.