Is there any advantage to shooting minor

[JAB]

Im shooting IPSC / IDPA is there any advantage to shooting minor in revolvers or are you better off shooting major

[Bubber]

JAB, The advantages of shooting minor is less felt recoil, hence follow up shots may be quicker with better accuracy. Now depending on the caliber and bullet type there are some tradeoffs. The disadvantage is that any hit scored less than an A hit will cost you twice as much as in Major. So gettting 85 to 90% of the points possible means you may only score half as many C's as the guys shooting Major to be even with the same times. It is doable, and if it was easy all of us would do it. I shoot minor in a 38 super 686. I have fun and I am somewhat competitive. Made A class revo shooting minor. Good luck whatever you decide. later rdd

[RevolverJockey]

I shoot minor quite often because I have elbow nerve damage from my time in the service. The obvious answer is there is an advantage of less recoil. The bad news is to be really competitive, you will never shot fast enough with the minor recoil advantage to offset the scoring disadvantage of shooting disadvantage. In theory, if you were to shoot all As and do it in the same time as you could shooting major it wouldn't matter. I shoot major for matches where I care to compete with other revolver shooters, otherwise I declare minor and shoot for fun. I will be shooting my 627 in production this year as a change of pace an don't have the minor scoring offset, just the capacity one.

Lee

[coldchar]

In a long stage, reloading is such a time burner that the value of the major loads differential over minor is significantly diminished, although not eliminated. On a shorter stage, the major load advantage becomes more apparent. That said, I also shoot 686 38 super minor. With the lower recoil, I can afford much more practice time without concern about the downside from the recoil.

Jim

[Shadowrider]

JAB, The advantages of shooting minor is less felt recoil, hence follow up shots may be quicker with better accuracy. Now depending on the caliber and bullet type there are some tradeoffs. The disadvantage is that any hit scored less than an A hit will cost you twice as much as in Major. So gettting 85 to 90% of the points possible means you may only score half as many C's as the guys shooting Major to be even with the same times. It is doable, and if it was easy all of us would do it. I shoot minor in a 38 super 686 about a third of the time. I have fun and I am somewhat competitive. Made A class revo shooting minor. Good luck whatever you decide. later rdd

Fixed it for you Bubber!

For those that haven't shot with Bubber in awhile, lately what you hear when he is shooting is pop, pop, BOOM!, pop, BOOM!, pop. Or some random variation thereof...

Now on topic, I can state from 1st hand knowledge that minor really hurts if you don't shoot a bunch of A's. I've been sort of running numbers and what ifs on my scores lately and Bubber is correct in his percentages.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Shadowrider

[Carmoney]

Im shooting IPSC / IDPA is there any advantage to shooting minor in revolvers or are you better off shooting major

For USPSA, you're better off shooting major.

[sargenv]

I shoot Minor in my 610 due to the gun hardly moving at all.. it also allows me to use the same loads between ICORE and USPSA.. There is something about not having to have a death grip and the fact that I can fire pretty good splits while staying on target with minor.. I think shooting major would also be detrimental to my wrists.. they are sore enough shooting minor for a match.. major would make it so bad I couldn't practice mid week.

[hopalong]

Do the math:

A good field course hit factor is in the 5-6 range.

So lets do it this way:

24 seconds on a 120 point stage is a 5 hit factor and lets say Carmoney lays down that run and it is the Stage winner for the match.

You are shooting major and you do the same time but 3 charlies(-1 each) and 1 delta (-3 each) (5 points total) you now have a 4.7917 Hitfactor and 95.83% for a total of 114.99 points

If you shoot minor: 24 seconds 3 charlies (-2) and 1 delta (-4 and what I call a no penalty mike) for a total of 10 points down you now a 91.66% and have a 4.5833 hit factor and 110.12 match points.

To get the same hit factor as the major run vs minor run you would have to cut 1.01 seconds off that very same run. Or just hit an A instead of the Delta or the 3 Charlies pretty much.

You basicly lost 4% just by shooting Minor vs Major

in a 226 round match like the Memphis charity Challenge (1130 match points) you are giving away 45.2 match points before ever firing a shot (4% of 1130) to Minor vs Major (generally 1 stage at the MCC)

Now if you are just shooting club matches and getting triggertime............BY ALL MEANS SHOOT MINOR !!!! it'll save wear and tear on your wrists

Hope that helps.

Hopalong

[John Z Sr]

Do the math:

A good field course hit factor is in the 5-6 range.

So lets do it this way:

24 seconds on a 120 point stage is a 5 hit factor and lets say Carmoney lays down that run and it is the Stage winner for the match.

You are shooting major and you do the same time but 3 charlies(-1 each) and 1 delta (-3 each) (5 points total) you now have a 4.7917 Hitfactor and 95.83% for a total of 114.99 points

If you shoot minor: 24 seconds 3 charlies (-2) and 1 delta (-4 and what I call a no penalty mike) for a total of 10 points down you now a 91.66% and have a 4.5833 hit factor and 110.12 match points.

To get the same hit factor as the major run vs minor run you would have to cut 1.01 seconds off that very same run. Or just hit an A instead of the Delta or the 3 Charlies pretty much.

You basicly lost 4% just by shooting Minor vs Major

in a 226 round match like the Memphis charity Challenge (1130 match points) you are giving away 45.2 match points before ever firing a shot (4% of 1130) to Minor vs Major (generally 1 stage at the MCC)

Now if you are just shooting club matches and getting triggertime............BY ALL MEANS SHOOT MINOR !!!! it'll save wear and tear on your wrists

Hope that helps.

Hopalong

Nice breakdown !!! I've been toying with going minor for awhile, will try at a local and see how it pans out. Thanks for doing the math, that makes alot of sense, John

[sargenv]

What if we shoot all alphas 90% of the time?

To me is all boils down to knowing your load, knowing your gun, and being consistent. If you can do all of that, and you have confidence in your load and the way the gun shoots, minor/major doesn't seem to make as much difference since you have the confidence to make 2 alphas, 3 alphas, etc...

I try not to get so much into the mind game since that usually screws me up worse than if I actually just shot the course of fire and don't worry about the little details. Trigger time beats theories more times than not..

Edited March 8, 2012 by sargenv

[No.343]

I don't think there are any theries in hopalong's explanation. I saw that 4‰ difference first hand in A4 and at the MCC. I wouldn't shoot minor in USPSA unless I absolutely had to.

[coldchar]

With round guns on a long stage, the time lost in reloading reduces the impact of the minor to a more manageable, but still exists, level.

On bottom feeders, Rob has been shooting minor on two occasions, I am familiar with, once inadvertently and once intentionally, the results were inconclusive, but certainly did not throw him out of the competition.

[Bubber]

One thing we are forgetting about IPSC scoring..It grades on a curve. I competited this last weekend in revolver and was scored major. I know I may have shot minor, or at least I hope I made the treshold of minor. My total score for the match was 920 points. After having it scored as minor I dropped 1.634 match points. I shot extremely fast for me and dropped a bucket of points, for me. I averaged 91% of the points available, even with my one bad stage and my one not so good. On those it was 75% and 88% of the points. My problem has never been points but the speed. I let it rip and got lucky. On the points my scoring was about 3% of what I would have made with major. That is if I could have hit at speed with major. Never have at this point and shoot minor better. It does not matter what any one else can do in Major vs minor but what you can do. And this may just be the blind sow findin the acorn. later rdd

[sargenv]

All I know is that I have faster recovery when shooting minor.. I know the load, I don't have to change anything and I've managed somehow to make "A" doing so... maybe statistically it would be better, but in the long run I'd probably do worse due to wear and tear on my hands/wrists.. I had a chrono man make a comment about how "unfair" my revo/load were since the gun hardly moves...

[Brian B]

I shoot major in my S&W 610 using 180 grain 40 cal. It has negligable mussel flip and recoil that is hardly felt.

I also have Trausch grips ( with built in beaver tails) on all my revolvers: 617, 627, 610, 1917, Security six.

http://www.trausch.com/form/crossesbise.htm

[Tom Freeman]

I mainly shoot minor. For me at the local level, it makes more sense. And it is easier on my wrists and wallet.

As a bonus, it is great practice for ICORE.

[michaels]

major vs minor.....we should have have super major for us "real" men. We take the bite of the super major 45 and 10mm's, nothing but A's on every target.

Yup, super major, the only way to go. Some of my 45's put a dent in the steel, they've got so much power to them...

Ah, I'll wake up in a little while and claim that I never said any of this. Really I will.

Minor with speedloaders, that's the ticket...

michael sousa

[AzShooter]

Experiment and find a soft shooting powder that will just make major and you will happy. Solo 1000 with a 230 grain bullet is the easiest I've found. Others use Clays.

Major has a big advantage over minor. You don't won't to give up all those extra points. Learn to control your trigger pull and keeps your shots in the A or C and you should do well. Get good grips to help control the recoil. I like Hogue Rubber or Pachmeyer Decelerators.

[Suicycle]

Major and Minor in IDPA is 2 different weapons and loading systems. And SSR is reallly MINOR! Talk about fun to shoot. At 105 the sights hardly lift on a nice K frame. If you don't make major out of your ESR gun your match is over, you don't get to shoot minor.

[Carmoney]

I also have Trausch grips ( with built in beaver tails) on all my revolvers: 617, 627, 610, 1917, Security six.

http://www.trausch.com/form/crossesbise.htm

Dude, this is like the 14th post in a row where you're pushing Trausch grips. Are you getting a kickback from them, or what??

Edited August 17, 2012 by Carmoney