EOTech vs. Variable sights

[TreyK]

A real 3Gun noob here....

I just ordered a Rock River ATH and I am seriously looking at a Burris MTAC to go on it. One of my friends is into ARs and such but not into 3Gun shooting yet. He is trying to talk me into getting an EOTech with 3X magnifier (on a flip mount). I have read and read and read more posts on this forum and see very little talk about EOTechs and other red dot sights. Are most shooters using 1-4 or 1.5-6 variable scopes? Thanks.

[StealthyBlagga]

The red dot sight/magnifier combination is an evolutionary dead end in 3-gun. A lot of top shooters played with the concept and rejected it. With all the exceptionally good low-power variables on the market now, I would not consider the red dot/magnifier combo. A good solid 1-4x, or even one of the new crop of 1-6x scopes, makes a lot more sense.

If you want to shoot a red dot sight, do so WITHOUT a magnifier in Tactical Limited division. If you have young eyes you can do very well, and the field is considerably less crowded.

Edited February 28, 2012 by StealthyBlagga

[co-exprs]

What he said. Dead end. You will end up spending $1200 to $1400 for a heavier, more problematic, and less versatile sighting package. Even the majority of Limited class competitors prefer the Leupold Prismatic over an Eotech or Aimpoint. If you will only be engaging large tagets inside of 200yds, then a red dot is fine. Some matches never get our more than 200. If however you will be shooting beyond 200 or ever have to make a precision shot inside of 200 then you will be so much better off with a low power variable. In addition to the already mentioned benefits, 50% of your shooting would require you to flip the magnifier to the side, thowing the rifle off balance. For $1100 you can get into a Meopta ZD 1-4x or an IOR Pit bull 1-4X with a high quality mount. You would have vastly supperior glass, balistic reticle, more compact, lighter weight and more robust product. If you just gotta have a day light bright reticle like a red dot, the Meopta ZD will get the job done. It will be just as fast as your buddies Eotech in 1x and will eat the Eotech for lunch in every other way. If you would like to save a few pennies and don't absolutely have to have a day light bright reticle then take a look at the Burris Mtac or the Vortex PST 1-4x. Eotech's score big in the coolness factor, but if you really want to cover all of your bases from point blank to 600yds, a good low power variable is the way to go.

[HOA]

I have to disagree. There is no better optic for close range shooting than a Eotech. 90% of your shots will be under 100 yds. I love watching the scoped guys constantly lifting their heads to find a target. With my 4x magnifier I am pretty accurate out to 300 yards. Remember we are not shooting 1inch groups we are shooting 8 inch plates or 16 inch wide Larues. Just my 2cents.

[Nuke8401]

I'm Lazy.

Not that there isn't new ground to cover in 3 GUN but.

If it were a good option the top shooters would be using it, they aren't.

Easy answer: 1x- whatever.

Now if you are only going to shoot matches out to 200 yards, maybe.

David E.

[Alaskapopo]

I have to disagree. There is no better optic for close range shooting than a Eotech. 90% of your shots will be under 100 yds. I love watching the scoped guys constantly lifting their heads to find a target. With my 4x magnifier I am pretty accurate out to 300 yards. Remember we are not shooting 1inch groups we are shooting 8 inch plates or 16 inch wide Larues. Just my 2cents.

Most of the matches I shoot are at 100 yards or less except for a few and I have yet to be beat by a red dot shooter with or without a magnifier. Red dots are fast up close but no more so than a 1x scope. The only time they really shine is in akward shooting positions. The magnifer has limited eye relief and a field of view. Most of the red dots don't have a way to dial in before a stage easily that required long shots. (the turrents are not resetable to zero) Nor do most have hold over reticles. A good low power variable is the way to go and there is a reason the top shooters are using them and not eotechs with magnifiers.

Pat

[Onagoth]

This is an interesting read as I have been struggling with this for over a year now. I love my Aimpoint but fail to see the benefits of it at a distance.

Even though I have good eyes, I think my shooting might improve with a good low power variable optic.

[co-exprs]

If you are a once in a while 3g competitor and already have a red dot, then grab a magnifier and go have some fun. If you will most likely never compete beyond 200yrd, then red dot it up. If you want to be competitive in every way and are not shooting limited division (1x optics or irons only) then you really need a variable power. The guys lifting thier heads to find targets are not running at 1x. I have a comp M4 collecting dust on my shelf at home because I figured out real quick that it simply won't get the job done. All of the magnifiers I looked at were awefull glass with terrible fish eye and by the time you pay for that and a decent mount you could have a real optic. Aimpoints and Eotechs have thier place, but in my area we shoot from point blank out to 600yds. There are always one or two guys who show up with red dots and magnifiers. They shoot the same speed as the guys with scopes on the fast stuff and then tank the long range stages. There are always exceptions. Some of the Limited class guys are really good with 1x optics. Casanova and Johnson are both exceptional with unmagnified Aimpoints and Prismatics, but they have both burned up barrels practicing too. Whatever you give up on the fast stuff, when running a low power variable, is unmeasurable. Whatever you give up on the distance stuff, when running a red dot, is mounumental.

[TreyK]

Great info guys. You've convinced me to get a 1-4x or 1.5-6x and plan to mount Dueck Defense RTS irons. Now to wade into the decision of which variable....

[Alaskapopo]

Great info guys. You've convinced me to get a 1-4x or 1.5-6x and plan to mount Dueck Defense RTS irons. Now to wade into the decision of which variable....

I would skip the off set irons as you don't need them 1x is faster. What is your budget. For under $500 look hard at the Burris 1-4 MTAC. The Vortex 1-4 HS is another option in that range. In the middle range price area the Meopta 1-4 is excellent as is the Trijicon TR24. For high prices the Swarovski Z6i can't be beat.

Pat

[TreyK]

Great info guys. You've convinced me to get a 1-4x or 1.5-6x and plan to mount Dueck Defense RTS irons. Now to wade into the decision of which variable....

I would skip the off set irons as you don't need them 1x is faster. What is your budget. For under $500 look hard at the Burris 1-4 MTAC. The Vortex 1-4 HS is another option in that range. In the middle range price area the Meopta 1-4 is excellent as is the Trijicon TR24. For high prices the Swarovski Z6i can't be beat.

Pat

Looking to spend less than $750. I am eyeballing the 1-4x MTAC / mount / Fast Fire combo deal.

My thought behind the DD RTS irons is the ability to have the variable set above 1x for stages with longer shots and still be able to acquire hozer targets with the irons. I am a noob so this is probably a noob idea so I'll save my money and start shooting and then make the decision.

[co-exprs]

There are some who run the offset irons very successfully. Most of my friends who have tried them, eventually decided it was a wash in time and opted for the lighter weight and simpler cleaner lines on the rifle. It is faster to use the offset sights when transitioning close/far/close, but not any faster when running through a CQB course. What we found is that there are so few times in which you have to transition from 100+yd targets to CQB and not have some sort of movement where you can easily flip the power ring without loss of time. In addition, when just using the variable power optic for all sighting, you only have one cheek weld to learn. Offset irons got popular when most competitors were running a fixed power ACOG. Now that most people in tactical division run low power variables at 1-4x or 1-6x, there are only a handfull who bother with the offset irons. There again, look to the top tactical division competitors. Only a handfull run the offsets any more.

For <$750 my choice would be the Mtac and a Larue 104 mount. The Mtac is very user friendly and very fast. It represents a very good value for a 3gunner in terms of features/performance/$$$. You get a lot for your money. Personally, I'd take the money saved and get some other good gear you might need. You could get a Carbon Arms Twins an ELS belt or some other such cool gear. Maybe some 4x4 caddies or some safariland 773 mag pouches.

[smokshwn]

Keep in mind most of my critique is in comparison to utilizing an RDS/Magnifier setup vs. a comparably priced 1x variable optic.

First. Price... By the time I purchase the initial RDS and the Magnifier and possibly two mounting systems the cost is well past some very nice 1-4 variable territory.

Second Function...I am either saddled with having the X power in place all of the time or I am hampered by having a dangling optic on my rifle. At best it is simply in the way and worst it is getting hung up on gear, obstacles etc. and severely hampering my weapon manipulations.

Third Optic quality. I have yet to see a magnifier that comes close to offering the optical quality of even mid priced 1x options.

Fourth Weight. At best most RDS/Magnifier setups are at least 4-5 oz heavier than a good 1x optic. Although a couple of ounces sounds small, keep in mind it is being added at the top of the rifle which is well above it's CG making the weight more noticeable from a handling perspective.

Also magnifiers were developed to give users who already purchased tens of thousands of RDS an option to put some magnification behind them rather than repurchasing tens of thousands of 1x variables to replace them.

So for the rest of us looking to place a versatile optic on a single rifle 1x variables have much more to offer.

[Shooter115]

Great info guys. You've convinced me to get a 1-4x or 1.5-6x and plan to mount Dueck Defense RTS irons. Now to wade into the decision of which variable....

I would skip the off set irons as you don't need them 1x is faster. What is your budget. For under $500 look hard at the Burris 1-4 MTAC. The Vortex 1-4 HS is another option in that range. In the middle range price area the Meopta 1-4 is excellent as is the Trijicon TR24. For high prices the Swarovski Z6i can't be beat.

Pat

Looking to spend less than $750. I am eyeballing the 1-4x MTAC / mount / Fast Fire combo deal.

My thought behind the DD RTS irons is the ability to have the variable set above 1x for stages with longer shots and still be able to acquire hozer targets with the irons. I am a noob so this is probably a noob idea so I'll save my money and start shooting and then make the decision.

Another thing to keep in mind, if you add the Fast Fire you will be shooting open class. I have the MTAC and love it, at 1x it's just as fast as the Burris red dot I was running.

[larry weeks]

I have trouble with eye relief/head position with the variables, love the Swaro I've been able to borrow, but I have to lift my head off the stock when prone and the gun waves around and I can't see the reticle. If I can figure that out, I'd use it again. I've gone back to the EOTech, and am shooting in Tac Iron/Limited. I'm still in the bottom 25%, now I'm finishing 20th instead of 120th. The EOTech has a 1 minute dot that doesn't cover long range targets. I can see the reticle easily, no matter how awkward the position. I've hit 300 yd targets and missed 75s, with magnification and without. If you want to shoot Tac Optic, get the best 1-4/6 you can afford. With the switch levers I don't think you need the extra irons. If you want to shoot Tac Iron, I don't think you can do any better than the EOTech.

[TreyK]

Great info guys. You've convinced me to get a 1-4x or 1.5-6x and plan to mount Dueck Defense RTS irons. Now to wade into the decision of which variable....

I would skip the off set irons as you don't need them 1x is faster. What is your budget. For under $500 look hard at the Burris 1-4 MTAC. The Vortex 1-4 HS is another option in that range. In the middle range price area the Meopta 1-4 is excellent as is the Trijicon TR24. For high prices the Swarovski Z6i can't be beat.

Pat

Looking to spend less than $750. I am eyeballing the 1-4x MTAC / mount / Fast Fire combo deal.

My thought behind the DD RTS irons is the ability to have the variable set above 1x for stages with longer shots and still be able to acquire hozer targets with the irons. I am a noob so this is probably a noob idea so I'll save my money and start shooting and then make the decision.

Another thing to keep in mind, if you add the Fast Fire you will be shooting open class. I have the MTAC and love it, at 1x it's just as fast as the Burris red dot I was running.

Agreed on the Fast Fire causing a class bump and I don't need to play against the super fast guys...yet. It is a good deal on the combo pricing and I want to put the red dot on the top rail of my AK house gun. I've been reading a lot about 1-4X and it seems to me the MTAC is the best value going right now and I can't afford to get into the next tier of optics.

I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me.