sbmd Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 I set stages up by feel and what I think is doable for everyone. Larry Don't forget those of us that suck. I haven't hit a target past 300 yards all year. You won't if you are shooting slugs!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7.62mm Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 You don't know Larry do you? His smarta$$ answer will be somewhere between your muzzle and infinity, and they will be things you shoot at. Howard, that is an awesome answer....let's go with that! Yes that's a cool answer but when you are paying big bucks to travel to and enter big matches its nice to get decent information on what you have to shoot at. I have run good size matches and have always given accurate information to any question a shooter asks. To me that's what most people call courtesy. OK so here you go, know your shot pattern from 10 yards to 22 yards, know you rifle dope from 3 feet to 450 yards, know how much your handgun bullet drops from 3 feet to 50 yards and of course the big question is the slugs, know your drop from 25 yards to 125 yards. What happened to the day of knowing all of this before you go to any match. I guess we have become accustom to having everything provided for us it takes the work out of it. Oh yea I guess someone did that for you! Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one, I'm a small business owner. To be quite honest, until I am setting the stages up, I can only give you approximate. I set stages up by feel and what I think is doable for everyone. So until it is actually on the ground, exact distances will not be known. Sorry I could not tell you the exact distances. You can hate me but I will not lock myself in for someone to have a complaint later. Larry Thanks Larry, At least I now have an idea of what to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! If you don't think it is important to know the distance to targets then why are you sorry that you can,t practice those 450 yd. shots that you know you are going to be have to make at the FNH match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onagoth Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! If you don't think it is important to know the distance to targets then why are you sorry that you can,t practice those 450 yd. shots that you know you are going to be have to make at the FNH match? I think it was mid-way through "People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions...." Ideally, people know their ballistics anywhere from 0-500 yards if they have the facility for that. If you do, knowing the actual ranges for the match is a moot point since you'll know all your bullet drops. If you don't have the facility for that, knowing the actual ranges is still a moot point because you can't practice them anyways. I know my handgun to 50y, slugs to 100y and rifle to 300y. Beyond that with the rifle and I have to rely on ballistic tables or on-the-fly corrections. Having said that, it doesn't mean I will make these shots in the match After huffing and puffing through a stage, trying to make even a 200y rifle shot can be tricky. Edited August 29, 2012 by Onagoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onagoth Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Larry, I am really looking forward to your stages and match...last years was awesome. Edited August 29, 2012 by Onagoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! If you don't think it is important to know the distance to targets then why are you sorry that you can,t practice those 450 yd. shots that you know you are going to be have to make at the FNH match? I think it was mid-way through "People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions...." Ideally, people know their ballistics anywhere from 0-500 yards if they have the facility for that. If you do, knowing the actual ranges for the match is a moot point since you'll know all your bullet drops. If you don't have the facility for that, knowing the actual ranges is still a moot point because you can't practice them anyways. I know my handgun to 50y, slugs to 100y and rifle to 300y. Beyond that with the rifle and I have to rely on ballistic tables or on-the-fly corrections. Having said that, it doesn't mean I will make these shots in the match After huffing and puffing through a stage, trying to make even a 200y rifle shot can be tricky. I agree with your post but, now that Larry has mentioned 125 yd. slug targets, I would bet that the smart shooter would practice those shots before going to the match. Rifle, I don't care about distance. Because of the accuracy problems with slugs, I like at least a good guess on distance and size of the target. I have no idea where to hold on a 125 yd target with my shotgun. Now I can find out before the match. That is the purpose of my original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! If you don't think it is important to know the distance to targets then why are you sorry that you can,t practice those 450 yd. shots that you know you are going to be have to make at the FNH match? I think it was mid-way through "People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions...." Ideally, people know their ballistics anywhere from 0-500 yards if they have the facility for that. If you do, knowing the actual ranges for the match is a moot point since you'll know all your bullet drops. If you don't have the facility for that, knowing the actual ranges is still a moot point because you can't practice them anyways. I know my handgun to 50y, slugs to 100y and rifle to 300y. Beyond that with the rifle and I have to rely on ballistic tables or on-the-fly corrections. Having said that, it doesn't mean I will make these shots in the match After huffing and puffing through a stage, trying to make even a 200y rifle shot can be tricky. I agree with your post but, now that Larry has mentioned 125 yd. slug targets, I would bet that the smart shooter would practice those shots before going to the match. Rifle, I don't care about distance. Because of the accuracy problems with slugs, I like at least a good guess on distance and size of the target. I have no idea where to hold on a 125 yd target with my shotgun. Now I can find out before the match. That is the purpose of my original question. Knowing is half the battle!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! If you don't think it is important to know the distance to targets then why are you sorry that you can,t practice those 450 yd. shots that you know you are going to be have to make at the FNH match? I think it was mid-way through "People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions...." Ideally, people know their ballistics anywhere from 0-500 yards if they have the facility for that. If you do, knowing the actual ranges for the match is a moot point since you'll know all your bullet drops. If you don't have the facility for that, knowing the actual ranges is still a moot point because you can't practice them anyways. I know my handgun to 50y, slugs to 100y and rifle to 300y. Beyond that with the rifle and I have to rely on ballistic tables or on-the-fly corrections. Having said that, it doesn't mean I will make these shots in the match After huffing and puffing through a stage, trying to make even a 200y rifle shot can be tricky. I agree with your post but, now that Larry has mentioned 125 yd. slug targets, I would bet that the smart shooter would practice those shots before going to the match. Rifle, I don't care about distance. Because of the accuracy problems with slugs, I like at least a good guess on distance and size of the target. I have no idea where to hold on a 125 yd target with my shotgun. Now I can find out before the match. That is the purpose of my original question. Knowing is half the battle!!! Thank you!! Great videos as usual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadrant Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I, as well, think it is riduculous to try and give out distances to targets before the match. Stage design wil change due to conditions on the range, space availabilty etc..(anyone who is a match director or stage designer knows and undeestands this) People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions....those who do, tend to be the ones that win matches, IMHO. This will be my first major 3 Gun match, and I can't wait...unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to practice 450 yard rifle shots...sucks to be Canadian, and not allowed to shoot our AR's on private property...range use only. Thanks to the organizers of this match, I am sure it will be fantastic! If you don't think it is important to know the distance to targets then why are you sorry that you can,t practice those 450 yd. shots that you know you are going to be have to make at the FNH match? I think it was mid-way through "People should focus on shooting at a variety of different ranges and positions...." Ideally, people know their ballistics anywhere from 0-500 yards if they have the facility for that. If you do, knowing the actual ranges for the match is a moot point since you'll know all your bullet drops. If you don't have the facility for that, knowing the actual ranges is still a moot point because you can't practice them anyways. I know my handgun to 50y, slugs to 100y and rifle to 300y. Beyond that with the rifle and I have to rely on ballistic tables or on-the-fly corrections. Having said that, it doesn't mean I will make these shots in the match After huffing and puffing through a stage, trying to make even a 200y rifle shot can be tricky. I agree with your post but, now that Larry has mentioned 125 yd. slug targets, I would bet that the smart shooter would practice those shots before going to the match. Rifle, I don't care about distance. Because of the accuracy problems with slugs, I like at least a good guess on distance and size of the target. I have no idea where to hold on a 125 yd target with my shotgun. Now I can find out before the match. That is the purpose of my original question. Knowing is half the battle!!! Spoken like a true GI Joe fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Not to bust Larry's balls because I understand exactly where he is coming from. I know my guns and abilities with those guns better than most guys but 3 gun requires us to stay sharp on so many different non everyday skills it's impossible to practice all of them regularly. So when a good MD like Larry can give us any information ahead of time so we can go brush up on the less than regular stuff it's great. How many top guys got their a$$ handed to them on the flying clays at Midwest, Rocky mountain and proAm? Knowing even approximate details so we can at least try to better prepare for a match makes the match much more fun for all skill levels. Edited August 29, 2012 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solscud007 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I dont have the facility or the money to practice all that stuff. But am I going to let it bother me? I know I wont win. But I sure am going to have a lot of fun shooting!! This will be my first 3Gun match ever. I cant wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaoler Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Knowing is half the battle!!! "Remembering" what you know is the other half... Unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephensOutdoors Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 With all these stages & techniques to practice ... you guys would be better off just not practicing at all, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard762 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Another thing about Larry: He has a history of making his matches very shootable. Back when him and I were running USPSA matches we shared a common philosophy. "Build the match for a C class Production shooter that is challenging, but shootable. If they can have fun the higher classified or Open shooters will have fun too, and going fast will add to their challenge." Shooters will always find a way to make easy stages hard by attempting to shoot above their abilities. Our philosophy is still very much the same. Larry will not bury you in trickery and impossible tasks. You will not go home from this or any of Larry's matches angry that you were not able make any shot. You may go home angry at yourself for not being able to do something that was well within your ability if you just didn't find a way to screw it up. The match staff from Larry down are all shooters first and foremost. We're not professional ROs, MDs, etc. We want to shoot and have fun. We want you to shoot and have fun also. We've worked diligently on this match since before the match last year was even finished. We have assembeled an incredible staff. The prize table will be truly amazing. The stages will be challenging, but shootable. The only thing we can't guarantee is the weather, and I'm looking for a way to do that. If we were less than courteous in our answers I apologize. We were just playing. We're those kind of smart alecks. I'm glad Larry was able to answer later. He is the stage designer and I know he has walked the areas where the stages have been several times. Still, as pointed out, things are hard to figure until they're actually in place. Be ready for anything. In Multi-gun there is more room for improvisation than USPSA when building stages. I like that part. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Another thing about Larry: He has a history of making his matches very shootable. Back when him and I were running USPSA matches we shared a common philosophy. "Build the match for a C class Production shooter that is challenging, but shootable. If they can have fun the higher classified or Open shooters will have fun too, and going fast will add to their challenge." Shooters will always find a way to make easy stages hard by attempting to shoot above their abilities. Our philosophy is still very much the same. Larry will not bury you in trickery and impossible tasks. You will not go home from this or any of Larry's matches angry that you were not able make any shot. You may go home angry at yourself for not being able to do something that was well within your ability if you just didn't find a way to screw it up. The match staff from Larry down are all shooters first and foremost. We're not professional ROs, MDs, etc. We want to shoot and have fun. We want you to shoot and have fun also. We've worked diligently on this match since before the match last year was even finished. We have assembeled an incredible staff. The prize table will be truly amazing. The stages will be challenging, but shootable. The only thing we can't guarantee is the weather, and I'm looking for a way to do that. If we were less than courteous in our answers I apologize. We were just playing. We're those kind of smart alecks. I'm glad Larry was able to answer later. He is the stage designer and I know he has walked the areas where the stages have been several times. Still, as pointed out, things are hard to figure until they're actually in place. Be ready for anything. In Multi-gun there is more room for improvisation than USPSA when building stages. I like that part. A lot. I have shot with and talked to both of you in the past years. When I found out you had teamed up to run a match, I knew I would enter it and it would be as you described in your post. A very doable and fun event! When I put on a match, questions were always answered to the best of my ability. Most of my questions were answered not by either of you but people that have different opinions. This is a forum. I expect that. Larry answered my question about slugs at 125 yds. I will have to shoot at that distance to see if my gun is capable of that. good to know that information. One more Question. Is a 125 yd. slug shot doable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard762 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Larry did answer "OK so here you go, know your shot pattern from 10 yards to 22 yards, know you rifle dope from 3 feet to 450 yards, know how much your handgun bullet drops from 3 feet to 50 yards and of course the big question is the slugs, know your drop from 25 yards to 125 yards." But it's a very generic answer. These are things you should practice for every match, plus a whole lot more. It's the best we can do until the stages are on the ground and it probably has a much larger window than we need. We can't tell you everything even if we do know it. I'd be willing to bet that there are no slug targets at 125 yards, and if there are they will be very large. It seems to me the rule of thumb for rifle is 3 or more moa, slugs 15 or more moa, and pistol 20 or more moa targets at most major matches. I'm sure those guidelines will not be violated at our match. Although it's a good idea to know your slug dope to 125 yards or more I won't be practicing past 100 yds. That's just from knowing Larry and his matches and other major matches. But I haven't seen the stages on the ground yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 It seems to me the rule of thumb for rifle is 3 or more moa, slugs 15 or more moa, and pistol 20 or more moa targets at most major matches. I'm sure those guidelines will not be violated at our match. Howard, those are doable guidlines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegot38 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 None of last years slug targets were killers and I did not hear anyone complain about them. I did not range them but the most challenging one was on a 45 degree downslope at between 75 and 100 yards if I recall correctly. Jesse has a great video of all of the stages posted here somewhere. Likewise, all of the rifle targets were doable although the wind made some very challenging. Pistol is pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Larry did answer "OK so here you go, know your shot pattern from 10 yards to 22 yards, know you rifle dope from 3 feet to 450 yards, know how much your handgun bullet drops from 3 feet to 50 yards and of course the big question is the slugs, know your drop from 25 yards to 125 yards." But it's a very generic answer. These are things you should practice for every match, plus a whole lot more. It's the best we can do until the stages are on the ground and it probably has a much larger window than we need. We can't tell you everything even if we do know it. I'd be willing to bet that there are no slug targets at 125 yards, and if there are they will be very large. It seems to me the rule of thumb for rifle is 3 or more moa, slugs 15 or more moa, and pistol 20 or more moa targets at most major matches. I'm sure those guidelines will not be violated at our match. Although it's a good idea to know your slug dope to 125 yards or more I won't be practicing past 100 yds. That's just from knowing Larry and his matches and other major matches. But I haven't seen the stages on the ground yet either. PERFECT!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchUSMC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Anyone want to split a room? And/or a trip from western Kentucky? Just found out that I'm going to get to shoot this one and I'm completely unprepared for travel arrangement's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark97se Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Larry did answer "OK so here you go, know your shot pattern from 10 yards to 22 yards, know you rifle dope from 3 feet to 450 yards, know how much your handgun bullet drops from 3 feet to 50 yards and of course the big question is the slugs, know your drop from 25 yards to 125 yards." But it's a very generic answer. These are things you should practice for every match, plus a whole lot more. It's the best we can do until the stages are on the ground and it probably has a much larger window than we need. We can't tell you everything even if we do know it. I'd be willing to bet that there are no slug targets at 125 yards, and if there are they will be very large. It seems to me the rule of thumb for rifle is 3 or more moa, slugs 15 or more moa, and pistol 20 or more moa targets at most major matches. I'm sure those guidelines will not be violated at our match. Although it's a good idea to know your slug dope to 125 yards or more I won't be practicing past 100 yds. That's just from knowing Larry and his matches and other major matches. But I haven't seen the stages on the ground yet either. Now I REALLY need to get out to the range and get everything nailed down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Would a para p 18 with a factory built 6" slide kit be legal in tactical optics division? Reading the rules I don't see why it would not be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Would a para p 18 with a factory built 6" slide kit be legal in tactical optics division? Reading the rules I don't see why it would not be Yes as long as it has no comp or dot and you run 140mm or less mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tplace Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Would a para p 18 with a factory built 6" slide kit be legal in tactical optics division? Reading the rules I don't see why it would not be so you got one of the 37 6" tops? How do you like it? Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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