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Open Gun Recoil Observations


Sarge

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I learned a few little tidbits today.

First, Open guns are not generally fun to shoot slow, like on a rest or through a chrono. At least mine isn't.

I loaded up a few experimental rounds to chrono and touched one off and thought, man that's hot it really smacked my hands pretty good. Shot ten through the chrono with the same sensation each shot. I checked the chrono and they were the same PF as my usual loads so I said heck with this I'll just keep shooting my tried and true loads that are much nicer feeling.

Went to the ammo box and discovered Those WERE the same rounds I have been shooting all of last year up until now. laugh.gif

Since chrono last June I have only shot the gun in drills and competition. I guess I had grown accustomed to the feel at full match speed.

Second, my gun is shooting a little high. Time to get back to the range and tweak it a little. Wonder how long that's been the case?blush.gif

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When you shoot off a rest, you're not ever actually using solid recoil control techniques - you take everything but your hands out of it, so the gun moves harder against you.

Shooting through a chrono with a normal shooting stance, though, I don't really notice any difference, except that I'm usually not focused on recoil control, so I get a little more flip...

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I've never seen an IPSC stage that required me to shoot my gun from a rest ... so I've never tried doing it in practice or over a chrono. You are also cheating yourself on a couple different levels if you zero your gun from a rest. Try it free-style and you'll get much more out of it.

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... You are also cheating yourself on a couple different levels if you zero your gun from a rest. Try it free-style and you'll get much more out of it.

Chris, can you elaborate please? I always zero off a rest at 25 and then shoot a few freehand as a final verification.

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Hello: You should try shooting into a berm with your eyes closed. You can tell the difference in recoil real well with your different loads that way. 3n37 with 115grain 9mm at 176PF gets my vote for hard on the hand. Thanks, Eric

Its funny - I honestly didn't notice any recoil when I shot your gun... Even left handed. I know I had the adrenaline going but it was still pretty amazing!

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Hello: You should try shooting into a berm with your eyes closed. You can tell the difference in recoil real well with your different loads that way. 3n37 with 115grain 9mm at 176PF gets my vote for hard on the hand. Thanks, Eric

I'm sure the range officers will love me shooting with my eyes closed! ^_^

Thank you

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... You are also cheating yourself on a couple different levels if you zero your gun from a rest. Try it free-style and you'll get much more out of it.

Chris, can you elaborate please? I always zero off a rest at 25 and then shoot a few freehand as a final verification.

According to whom, and on what levels?

In my opinion .... or at least in my experience .... when I live-fire at the range, I like to test MY accuracy. Not the gun's accuracy. It's alright to check your gun on a rest once in a while, to establish a baseline, but as Dave previously said, your grip changes when shooting from a rest. So wouldn't it be accurate to say that your POI changes also? I don't want to waste my time or my ammunition proving to myself that my gun is more accurate than I am. I already know that. I want to check my sights / red-dot's accuracy based on match conditions, and my on personal stance & grip. I want to improve, or at least test my grip & stance, while checking my sights. More bang for the buck, not to mention learning what I'm doing right or wrong.

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Ok Chris, now I get it. We're basically doing the same thing, just going about it a slightly different way. I want to know the bullet is going where the dot is so I use a rest for that then I make sure I'm doing it right freehand.

:cheers:

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my gun is shooting high. Wonder how long that's been the case?blush.gif

If your grip screws loosen up a bit, your POI will wander

(or, I guess, any other screws for that matter):((

I couldn't get thru a match without losing zero - turns

out my grip screws were loose.

Little loctite solved that problem:)

Jack

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Sarge, what are you shooting - 9mm or a 38 set up? How is your scope mounted - vertical or horizontal? I would consider those things before you chase zeroing distances. What works for my 38SC normal C-more setup might not be the cats meow for a 9mm vertical C-more set-up :cheers: (in regards to your hold over preference)

Edited by Bigpops
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In my opinion .... or at least in my experience .... when I live-fire at the range, I like to test MY accuracy. Not the gun's accuracy.

Not a bad thing to do - I shoot groups, and do accuracy work from various shooting positions just for this reason.

It's alright to check your gun on a rest once in a while, to establish a baseline, but as Dave previously said, your grip changes when shooting from a rest. So wouldn't it be accurate to say that your POI changes also?

In my experience, it does not shift with an Open gun. An iron sight gun is another matter, although the shift is not huge. The only position I've ever noted an impact shift with is shooting prone - I tend to consistently hit about 2" low at 25y shooting prone.

Note - I follow the procedure I outline in my blog posts on shooting groups w/ a dot, and zero'ing a C-More. The key is - keep that dot centered in the lens. If you can do that, it seems to translate back to any other position. I haven't determined why I shoot low when shooting prone, yet ... namely because I don't spend a lot of time prone (in practice, or in a match)...

I don't want to waste my time or my ammunition proving to myself that my gun is more accurate than I am. I already know that. I want to check my sights / red-dot's accuracy based on match conditions, and my on personal stance & grip. I want to improve, or at least test my grip & stance, while checking my sights. More bang for the buck, not to mention learning what I'm doing right or wrong.

I submit that both are good to do - there may be days when you as a shooter are off, but there may also be times that your equipment has changed (scope gets banged or wanders), one of the components you load with changes - different lots, that sort of thing) and suddenly the gun isn't hitting where it should be.

I put the gun on the bench and shoot a group at the start of most practice session, just to double check that everything is kosher with my gear. Saves a lot of headaches later when I start having sucky scores on drills only to finally realize (after much wailing and gnashing of teeth) that it's the gun, and not me.

Benching the gun for an equipment double check or to sight in at each practice will also show you other potential gear issues that you weren't yet aware of much more clearly than "match conditions".

And, finally, benching the gun is a good way to work on group shooting skills. It removes several variables from the shooting, allowing you to focus solely on your trigger pull. A lot of people need that kind of work (including GMs cheers.gif).

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Hello: You should try shooting into a berm with your eyes closed. You can tell the difference in recoil real well with your different loads that way. 3n37 with 115grain 9mm at 176PF gets my vote for hard on the hand. Thanks, Eric

Its funny - I honestly didn't notice any recoil when I shot your gun... Even left handed. I know I had the adrenaline going but it was still pretty amazing!

Chris: That is my Auto Comp load you shot that I used at natioanls last year. Not my softest load but a very clean one and temp stable. That pistol has had alot of changes and is about as good as it gets with those parts. It is fast and flat and fairly soft. I will bring it again this weekend if you want? Thanks, Eric
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Chris: That is my Auto Comp load you shot that I used at natioanls last year. Not my softest load but a very clean one and temp stable. That pistol has had alot of changes and is about as good as it gets with those parts. It is fast and flat and fairly soft. I will bring it again this weekend if you want? Thanks, Eric

That would be awesome Eric! I'm going to travel up to Utah and shoot Area 1 in April so I'm hoping to have both my new gun and a classification before the match.

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Sarge, what are you shooting - 9mm or a 38 set up? How is your scope mounted - vertical or horizontal? I would consider those things before you chase zeroing distances. What works for my 38SC normal C-more setup might not be the cats meow for a 9mm vertical C-more set-up :cheers: (in regards to your hold over preference)

9mm traditional Cmore.

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Some of what Chris and the guys are saying in the thread drift are probably true. While my gun prints too hi for my liking from a rest it does appear to be dead on at combat speed. Granted the targets are closer than I was shooting yesterday but I still feel it is too high at 25-30 yards. I would easily overline poppers at that distance as the gun currently appears to shoot.

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