9 Major Brass for Minor Load?

[Sin-ster]

I picked up a hefty supply of nickeled 9mm cases not long ago, at a cheap price. As in-- cheaper than brass, plus it looks sexy with my Montana Golds! Most are once-fired range pick ups, mostly from a police facility in the area; the Glock smears on the primers are rampant. Some have clearly slipped in from the matches shot there, however-- and most of them are from 9 Major users.

I ran a few hundred through my 650 for a practice session, and like a 'tard face, didn't inspect them closely or drop-check them in the barrel. ~75 rounds in, a super-bulge locked up my 9 Pro; I picked 2 more troubled pieces out of that lot, plus another 5 or so out of the entire assortment. They are obviously bad, swollen at the web something fierce, and the stress to the nickel coating makes them stand out like a sore thumb.

In the process, I noticed the obvious differences between those that came through an Open gun from those that were just once fired. The problem is... I don't know "how stressed is too stressed", or if it even really matters for Minor loadings...

Now, I'm loading Minor and Minor only-- relatively low in the grand scheme of things, with 124 grain MG JHP's over 4.1 grains of N320 @ 1.140. My lot of brass is around it's 10th pass through the press, and only two split cases (both of which MIGHT have formerly been Major loads) and no loose primer pockets as of yet...

However, as I sort, I find myself wondering-- just what type of damage has been done to these things?

I know a lot of guys load 9 Major several times before leaving it behind. I know others run it until they split. I know many (most?) just let it drop-- which is definitely where these cases came from. (The nickel is still super fresh-- they're just a bit deformed in some instances, most notably above the web, although some seem to have a tiny bit of expansion at the web itself. No bulge, but some "stretch".)

So, the questions...

1) Is one pass through an Open gun roughly equivalent to several Minor loadings, or does the wear not "stack" in that regard?

2) So long as they're not bulged enough to lock up my gun, should I run them like I would "Minor only" brass-- until they split or the primers show signs of being loose?

3) Should I chuck the ones that seem to have expanded a little at the web, and keep those that will resize in my press? (Using Dillon factory resizing die, btw.)

4) Does the brittle nickel make any difference in this equation? I'm sure I've got formerly-9 Major brass floating around in my yellow brass lot, and it hasn't caused problems as of yet. I know they may be prone to splitting earlier, but no huge deal on that; I'm more concerned with case head separation, or anything of the like.

Recently, I've been basically ignoring brass that's been through an Open gun (or even looks like it might have been). But I've got these, they're purty to look at, and I'd hate to just let them sit.

[acekc]

Others with more experience will almost certainly weigh in, but my thoughts:

1) No, one open gun pass does not equal several minor loadings. The pressures to which the brass is subjected in a major load are significantly higher and that stresses the brass more than being shot repeatedly at minor pressures.

2) This is a matter of opinion, but 9mm brass is so cheap and plentiful that if an individual piece is questionable at all I would chuck it and move on.

3) I would. I would also consider picking up a case gauge if you don't have one already. It will alert you to problem brass and keep you from encountering a situation like the one that locked up your gun. Because of the whole Glock chamber/.40 thing I resize any "new to me" once-fired .40 brass and check it in a gauge. If it doesn't fit in the gauge after resizing I chuck it.

4) The nickel is just a plating over brass, so more than likely it's just showing you a problem you might not see with brass cases because it isn't as malleable and therefore cracks.

My perspective: 100 nickel-plated pieces of Starline brass are $18 at Midway. 500 pieces are $84. If one of your purty nickel cases experiences case head separation, what does that cost you in terms of possible damage to the gun and/or you?

[Bob DuBois]

Just my thought, I shoot more 9 minor than ever before, an old IPSC shooter who's turned to IDPA,a little easier and cheaper. I shoot Range brass and inspect it after cleaning. I'll throw away Military cases because of case volume, smaller. Commerical cases with a swage ring around the primer or at least set them aside to be swagged. Any cases that have a flat primer or signs of pressure from an open nine pistol. While open brass will size and chamber in my 9mm Trojan and Glock 34 they may not hold the primer and cause a jam if the primer backs out or fall out. While this may only be a small precentage it could ruin your match as it always seems to happen at the worst moment as once you have acctivated a turner.

There's so much 9mm range brass out, if you know it came through an open pistol, leave it.

[Sarge]

I have loaded 9MAJOR for almost a year on the same batch of brass. some have been loaded 6 times anyway. The pockets are still tight but occasionally a split case shows up. Maybe it depends on what guys are running there Open guns at but mine are running at 175pf and only slightly flattening SPP.

They don't deform SRP at all so thats not always a good way to tell.

If you are worried don't shoot them, if you are not worried then load them up. I think 9mm is tougher than we tend to believe.

[DougCarden]

I would take your brass and have it rollsized. At that point you will know when you resize it if the case has had it. The primer pocket, as mentioned before, will tell you when it is done as well.

Once you roll size it and then resize it it should chamber for you in anything, period.

Good luck,

DougC

[Sin-ster]

Good stuff.

I typically barrel check my ammo for matches, so the case gauge gathers dust on the bench. The one that locked me up was a practice round that was visually a problem-- I sorted the rest out and moved on. Mostly, I want to save the components/hassel and get the troubled cases out of the way ASAP.

After sorting them all, I discovered that the problematic pieces made up a relatively low percentage; just chucking them still means I got my money's worth. There were several that had clearly been through an Open gun that made the "keeper" pile-- my guess being that they were at lower pressures than the others, or the chamber through which they were fired was a bit more supportive.

Some observations:

1) Federal brass must be as soft as people claim. 5 out of the 7 "instant discard" pieces, with bulge, were Federals. FC headstamps also made up the bulk of the "questionable" pile.

2) R-P stuff seems to hold up the best. There were some cases with flattened primers (that are getting tossed) that showed no significant signs of swell or deformation. Speer was a very close second.

3) Some of the +p+ stuff is hot enough to melt primer shoulders from the factory. I found several like this, all with a Glock primer smudge-- it's hard to believe they all went through a rare Glock Open gun, when none of my other obvious Glock-fired pieces had any signs of over pressure at all.

4) WIN nickel plating shows you at a glance the higher pressure loads, as the extra swelling in the cases appears as tiny stress fractures in the plating.

5) Most of the deformed cases were only detectable on one side of the case itself; they almost have a curved shape to them, instead of a uniform swell. Feed ramp area I suppose?

6) You can detect SRP fairly easily when the primer has retained its shape, but the headstamp itself is a little smudged.

In total, I instantly pitched about 1-2% of the cases based on obvious pressure symptoms; roughly 7 of the 2k or so were bulged enough to have locked up the gun. Another 8-15% were set aside-- I may rollsize them at some point, just for a learning experience. I'm going to run a few through the resizing die to see what their ultimate shape is; I know for a fact they will chamber, but it's probably not worth the risk. I'll segregate them for non-match use anyway.

[Sin-ster]

I would take your brass and have it rollsized. At that point you will know when you resize it if the case has had it. The primer pocket, as mentioned before, will tell you when it is done as well.

Once you roll size it and then resize it it should chamber for you in anything, period.

Good luck,

DougC

So Doug, can I interpret that to mean that "if it'll chamber and hold a primer, it's GTG"?

[DougCarden]

It "should" be...

Some chambers will buldge it enough that when you resize it you shave some brass off. That brass is junk.

If it rollsizes and resizes, then gauges, then it should be good to go for minor loads.

You can also look at the headstamp. If it looks stretched out around the primer, then it has had a hard life and pressure was high at one point.

You can use 9mm brass for minor loads until the case rim gets too damaged, the primer pocket loosens up, or you lose it.

All bets are off on unknown major brass.

But yes....if it will chamber and load it "should" be good to go.....

Good luck,

DougC

[kevin c]

I shoot Production these days. I use USPSA range pick ups for practice and club match brass. Lots of Open 9mm shooters at my club. Also a fair number of new folks shooting a variety of factory ammo.

Since I have a case roller, I don't have the issue of case wall bulges. For me, the problem is primer pockets. Some are crimped - those I discard, if I catch them before crusing a primer. Some are too loose. I'm not talking about, "Gee that seated really easy...", I'm talking about seating the primer, and then having it FALL OUT OF THE ROUND as it cycles through the press, jamming everything up. This I believe is the consequence of multiple 9mm major loadings.

So, I now check headstamps/caseheads. Some brands, crimped primer pockets, and the primer-smeared-flat-rim-to-rim/see-every-last-tool-mark-on-my-breechface cases get piled up for my friend Vince, who gleefully converts them into bullet jackets.

[yoshidaex]

Some brands, crimped primer pockets, and the primer-smeared-flat-rim-to-rim/see-every-last-tool-mark-on-my-breechface cases get piled up for my friend Vince, who gleefully converts them into bullet jackets.

If you don't mind me asking, what caliber bullet does he make with the brass you give him?

[kevin c]

9mm into 40: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97420&st=75&p=1127487&hl=jacket&fromsearch=1entry1127487

He's also working on making .223 jackets out of .22 LR brass.

[Steve RA]

He appears to be following in the footsteps of "Rock Chuck Bullet Swage" !