DeCoxter Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Do any of you have experience with the Saiga? Seems like an AR style mag change would be a big benefit in a match. Haven't seen much buzz on here and was wondering what general opinion was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Do any of you have experience with the Saiga? Seems like an AR style mag change would be a big benefit in a match. Haven't seen much buzz on here and was wondering what general opinion was. It's a big benefit if you plan on shooting in the Open division of competitions. You won't be shooting against poor saps like me that have to load each shell by hand (Tactical Optics or Limited, for example). That wouldn't be 'fair'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckell101 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 People used to use them quite a bit in the open division. However their finnickiness (sp?) and required fine tuning kind of make them a beast to own/run. Most individuals who were/are running Saigas have moved to the AKDAL. And if I remember right, Firebird, the guys who did some of the best Saiga tuning, have stopped working on them and are focusing specifically on the AKDAL. But the problem you run into with the AKDAL right now is the availability of parts and accessories, etc. - right now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Did you do a search for Saiga? Start by looking here. http://randrtargets.com/site/ Edited February 11, 2012 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Typing the word Saiga into the search box returned 27 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 People used to use them quite a bit in the open division. However their finnickiness (sp?) and required fine tuning kind of make them a beast to own/run. Most individuals who were/are running Saigas have moved to the AKDAL. And if I remember right, Firebird, the guys who did some of the best Saiga tuning, have stopped working on them and are focusing specifically on the AKDAL. But the problem you run into with the AKDAL right now is the availability of parts and accessories, etc. - right now anyway. My Akdal should be coming back from Firebird early next week. Jim has a whole line of custom parts. The issue now is mags. Firebird has a vendor forum here on Enos. Check it out. My Saiga is retired the moment I think I can shoot a match with the Akdal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Love my Saiga it is the reason I went open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am running a Saiga 12 which I bought already modified-I sent it to Jack Travers of JT Engineering and he transformed it into an Open gun for me. It takes a lot of $$$$ to get them to run right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm going to bet in a few months there will be very little demand for new open class Saigas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) People used to use them quite a bit in the open division. However their finnickiness (sp?) and required fine tuning kind of make them a beast to own/run. Most individuals who were/are running Saigas have moved to the AKDAL. And if I remember right, Firebird, the guys who did some of the best Saiga tuning, have stopped working on them and are focusing specifically on the AKDAL. But the problem you run into with the AKDAL right now is the availability of parts and accessories, etc. - right now anyway. Not moving to AKDAL until there are high cap mags and it proves itself. My R&R Saiga is doing good for me. I have not seen people moving away from the Saiga at all. It seems a few people are experimenting with the AKDAL right now but there has not been a mass exidoous from the Saiga like you speak of. I am not slaming the AKDAL its good to see more options out there. But its way too soon to call it a Saiga Killer. I have not even seen one for sale up here. Pat Edited February 12, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) People used to use them quite a bit in the open division. However their finnickiness (sp?) and required fine tuning kind of make them a beast to own/run. Most individuals who were/are running Saigas have moved to the AKDAL. And if I remember right, Firebird, the guys who did some of the best Saiga tuning, have stopped working on them and are focusing specifically on the AKDAL. But the problem you run into with the AKDAL right now is the availability of parts and accessories, etc. - right now anyway. Not moving to AKDAL until there are high cap mags and it proves itself. My R&R Saiga is doing good for me. I have not seen people moving away from the Saiga at all. It seems a few people are experimenting with the AKDAL right now but there has not been a mass exidoous from the Saiga like you speak of. I am not slaming the AKDAL its good to see more options out there. But its way too soon to call it a Saiga Killer. I have not even seen one for sale up here. Pat First there was never mass acceptance of the Saiga. Therefor there can be no mass exodus. As to the popularity of the Akdal Firebird is already entertaining more orders than the earlier saiga models. So while there were plenty of people who stayed away from the Saiga either because of it's reputation for horrible stock build quality or the expense involved in making one run, there are plenty moving into 1919's. It already is a Saiga Killer. The development and tuning of the AKDAL has only taken a year compared to the 5-6 years spent trying to make the Saiga into what it was. The AKDAL enjoys manufacturer/factory support far and above the SAIGA. There will be barrels, bolts, operating arms, replacement parts etc to support the 1919 which have never been nor will ever be available for the Saiga. The far superior build quality of the 1919 allows for repeatable machine operations facilitating modification of the gun. This was never possible with the Saiga due to huge dimesnional variances seen from gun to gun. The dimensional tolerances in the 1919 alone far surpass the Saiga which allows for large scale manufacturing of aftermarket parts unlike for the Saiga which were a crapshoot at best. All these things before we even get into optimizing the 1919 for our game. As to one not being available in Alaska????? I'm sure there are quite a few specialty items that are not widely available, but I don't know how that translates into the product not being significantly better than the Saiga. Edited February 12, 2012 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I am watching and waiting. First there has to be high cap mags. I don't see the support base there yet for this gun. Only Firebird is doing the work on them as of yet. With the Saiga you have huge support from a lot of companies in and outside of the game as well. There is a whole segment of gun owners who love the Saiga. Its funny how your posts talks about things that will be and not things that are here all ready. (hint there is not much hence my wait and see attitude) For now I will be sticking with my R&R Saiga, but I hope the AKDAL does everything you said it will do. As for Alaska not having speciality products that is far from the truth. This is a very pro gun state with some hard core shooters and many have some of the best gear money can buy. Saiga Killer at this point not really. When it is I will buy one as I like the idea of an even more AR like shotgun that is cheaper with spare parts available. What I would really like to see is a good company like FN or Benelli make a mag fed shotgun. Pat Edited February 12, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Please point to all the funny parts that aren't here already As for the offense you seem to have taken over the local availability of product, my point wasn't that you are still loading cap and ball. It was merely that the fact a particular product is not found in your local gunmart has absolutely zero correlation to its viability as a 3gun product. FWIW, I haven't seen a glut CR speed belts, Double Alpha mag pouches, Meopta ZD's, JP CTR02's etc at my local Cabela's, but we all know they are pretty good products for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I am watching and waiting. First there has to be high cap mags. I don't see the support base there yet for this gun. Only Firebird is doing the work on them as of yet. With the Saiga you have huge support from a lot of companies in and outside of the game as well. There is a whole segment of gun owners who love the Saiga. Its funny how your posts talks about things that will be and not things that are here all ready. (hint there is not much hence my wait and see attitude) For now I will be sticking with my R&R Saiga, but I hope the AKDAL does everything you said it will do. As for Alaska not having speciality products that is far from the truth. This is a very pro gun stage with some hard core shooters and many have some of the best gear money can buy. Saiga Killer at this point not really. When it is I will buy one as I like the idea of an even more AR like shotgun that is cheaper with spare parts available. What I would really like to see is a good company like FN or Benelli make a mag fed shotgun. Pat Tromix is doing work as well. So is R&R, or they were last fall when I talked to them about possibly doing a comp right after I got my Akdal. They supposedly had several guns for test beds. Id bet a very tidy sum there are quite a few companies developing parts behind the scenes. First one to make a truly reliable, reasonably priced 10-12 round mag wins the big prize. The race is already over. Saiga loses. Box stock its better than a Saiga. I have decided that depending on the round count I am going to use my Akdal with one 10 rounder if thats all I have and 4 5 rounders. The ability to load easily on a closed bolt etc. will make it pretty close to even against a Saiga with 10 rounders I think. IF I can come up with one more 10 rounder game over. Of course the drum is different but most 3 gunners dont use the drum. They use Jacks magwell. THEN I will probably sell my only remaining Saiga and all of the modified mags and parts. Edited February 12, 2012 by Kent Grewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeCoxter Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Wow, tons of opinions! Now I wish I asked about this gun BEFORE I bought it. Although it sounds like they can be made to work pretty good. I've read a few things about these being finicky but so far mine has worked flawlessly with whatever I've run through it both times it's been out. Can you not use this gun in limited? I've only been to one match so my multi gun experience is small, but it looks like its about to start taking off here in the Dallas area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Most matches place removable mag shotguns into open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareyH Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I am currently running a saiga that I built, and it runs 100%. I guess I have the only one lol. Once the mag issue is figured out on the akdel I will get one. I would love to keep using the saiga but like any gun parts wear out and when they do on a saiga your SOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The Akdal does look promising. I hope they offer a version without the fixed stock. As for Saiga parts, I think parts will become more available from the factory to compete with the Akdal and from people parting out their Saigas to pay for Akdals . I still like my Saiga though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Please point to all the funny parts that aren't here already As for the offense you seem to have taken over the local availability of product, my point wasn't that you are still loading cap and ball. It was merely that the fact a particular product is not found in your local gunmart has absolutely zero correlation to its viability as a 3gun product. FWIW, I haven't seen a glut CR speed belts, Double Alpha mag pouches, Meopta ZD's, JP CTR02's etc at my local Cabela's, but we all know they are pretty good products for the sport. Show me where I can get a race ready AKDAL and mags right now? When I check Firebirds website it says "in the works". Others in this thread have spoken of mag issues. This gun looks promising but its too soon to say that its a Saiga killer in my opinion. As for taking offense at the Alaska comment, I appologize for that, it was late and I read into your post something you did not say. Pat Edited February 12, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Please point to all the funny parts that aren't here already As for the offense you seem to have taken over the local availability of product, my point wasn't that you are still loading cap and ball. It was merely that the fact a particular product is not found in your local gunmart has absolutely zero correlation to its viability as a 3gun product. FWIW, I haven't seen a glut CR speed belts, Double Alpha mag pouches, Meopta ZD's, JP CTR02's etc at my local Cabela's, but we all know they are pretty good products for the sport. Show me where I can get a race ready AKDAL and mags right now? When I check Firebirds website it says "in the works". Others in this thread have spoken of mag issues. This gun looks promising but its too soon to say that its a Saiga killer in my opinion. As for taking offense at the Alaska comment, I appologize for that, it was late and I read into your post something you did not say. Pat My race ready Akdal should arrive this week. The gun is done and Jim was waiting on the aluminum adapters to make a ten rounder. He has promised one with each build. And he has other things in the works. Hopefully soon. While the initial stopgap mags are probably going to be pricey he makes it plain he know most shooters need 3 to cover most matches. Check out his vendor forum here on Enos to get it direct. I have enjoyed my Saiga but I have no problem using a better product. By this time next week I should have enough rounds to verify what I already think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Please point to all the funny parts that aren't here already As for the offense you seem to have taken over the local availability of product, my point wasn't that you are still loading cap and ball. It was merely that the fact a particular product is not found in your local gunmart has absolutely zero correlation to its viability as a 3gun product. FWIW, I haven't seen a glut CR speed belts, Double Alpha mag pouches, Meopta ZD's, JP CTR02's etc at my local Cabela's, but we all know they are pretty good products for the sport. Show me where I can get a race ready AKDAL and mags right now? When I check Firebirds website it says "in the works". Others in this thread have spoken of mag issues. This gun looks promising but its too soon to say that its a Saiga killer in my opinion. As for taking offense at the Alaska comment, I appologize for that, it was late and I read into your post something you did not say. Pat Firebird's the place. Jim developed all of the parts last year and after many hard learned lessons about "sharing" with others, he is in the enviable position of having production parts being installed in builds as we speak. Everyone else gets to play catch up this time. "Right now" is relative as I can't think of a single custom gun that anyone can get "right now". In this game lead times are a reality. Call Jim and put in an order. Rather than updating the sight he has been busting his ass making parts and building guns. The guns are shipping to those who put orders in prior to the first of the year. Edited February 13, 2012 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Please point to all the funny parts that aren't here already As for the offense you seem to have taken over the local availability of product, my point wasn't that you are still loading cap and ball. It was merely that the fact a particular product is not found in your local gunmart has absolutely zero correlation to its viability as a 3gun product. FWIW, I haven't seen a glut CR speed belts, Double Alpha mag pouches, Meopta ZD's, JP CTR02's etc at my local Cabela's, but we all know they are pretty good products for the sport. Show me where I can get a race ready AKDAL and mags right now? When I check Firebirds website it says "in the works". Others in this thread have spoken of mag issues. This gun looks promising but its too soon to say that its a Saiga killer in my opinion. As for taking offense at the Alaska comment, I appologize for that, it was late and I read into your post something you did not say. Pat Firebird's the place. Jim developed all of the parts last year and after many hard learned lessons about "sharing" with others, he is in the enviable position of having production parts being installed in builds as we speak. Everyone else gets to play catch up this time. "Right now" is relative as I can't think of a single custom gun that anyone can get "right now". In this game lead times are a reality. Call Jim and put in an order. Rather than updating the sight he has been busting his ass making parts and building guns. The guns are shipping to those who put orders in prior to the first of the year. It does have me thinking. I won't be placing an order just yet. Just want to see how they work out first and I have a lot invested in my Siaga. But I do see myself getting one down the road. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 When I can buy the parts to make the AKDAL 922 compliant and there are mags with 12 plus Rnds available. Then you will have something......provided it works of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRumore Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Firebird's the place. Jim developed all of the parts last year and after many hard learned lessons about "sharing" with others, he is in the enviable position of having production parts being installed in builds as we speak. Everyone else gets to play catch up this time. Jeez....get over yourself. Tromix made the first custom AKDAL posts/parts on this board in May of 2011 and have been working on a slew of parts ever since. Just like Firebird. Tony Rumore Tromix Edited February 14, 2012 by TonyRumore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeCoxter Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 That AKDAL does look pretty nice, but for those that have the Saiga's, it looks like the best bet for quick reloading is to get the aftermarket mag well and mags that appear to work AR style, any comments? And also how do you carry your mags in a match, and how many (I assume 2 would probably do it)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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