Jacketed or lead

[Shipster]

I was reading this thread but it didn't answer my question. I seem to see a lot more shooters using lead in every Division execpt open and perhaps Production, at least at the matches I attend. But I get the feeling that a good majority here at BE use jacketed. I think the other thread covered the pro's and Con's of each but I still would like to know how it breaks down here.

Thanks

Steve

[EricW]

I used to mix and match, but I may be switching over to jacketed exclusively. The smoke on a warm, dry day isn't bad at all, but when the weather turns cool and humid, what seems to be happening is condensation. Sometimes, it's so bad that all I see after I pull the trigger is a white sheet. Now that the weather has warmed up and the air has dried out, the smoke isn't a problem.

I may end up shooting lead seasonally and accept the hassle of scrubbing the lead out before shooting jackets again. Shooting jackets after lead (at least out of my barrel) is a total loser. The accuracy just blows.

[TriggerT]

Since I have to shoot a good deal indoors, I use plated bullets. I used to use jacketed, but the plated are both cheaper, and they shoot a little softer. I also like them a little more than lead, since they are cleaner, though more expensive.

[SiG Lady]

I shoot jacketed because I shoot exclusively indoors... Range rules require FMJ.

[Loves2Shoot]

Lead in my 40, jacketed in the super. But now I carry some jacketed for matches because smoke can be an issue some times.

[uscbigdawg]

Jacketed only. They're more accurate, I don't have to see, look at or think about smoke.

For the argument on $$$, jacketed isn't that much more expensive than lead or plated (which I personally think are crap). After all, you can drop three large on a pistol, spend an extra $20-30 for jacketed.

It's like leaving new/once fired brass at a major match. You've spent hundreds of dollars to get to the match, why trust reliability on Bubba's stepped on, dirt filled, X reloaded brass when for $30 you have the ammunition eliminated from the equation as a problem.

Just a thought.

Rich

[Shipster]

EricW and L2S both of you kind of touched on the reason for my Question. Last Friday evening some where between 6:30pm and 7:00pm our club had a practice and for about an hour it looked like a black powder shoot going on instead of a IPSC practice. After the sun droped a little lower it wasn't as bad. This may sound a little strange but the light must play some part in the perception of the amount of smoke seen. This was the same load I've used for over a year and don't remember it being as bad as the other night.

Steve

[kdj]

I don't differentiate between practice and match ammo and I'm certainly not shooting lead all the time, so I'm a "Jacketed for both" voter.

Kevin

[Tman33_99]

I use Precision Bullets (Coated Lead) and they work very well for me. Only when shooting directly into the sun, there will be a little bit of a smoke cloud, but it isn't real bad.

Steve, if you are shooting plain lead, plus a dirty powder, directly into the sun is a bad combination. Otherwise it isn't too noticable.

[uscbigdawg]

Shipster,

The last Limited Nationals in Vegas, gave me my lesson in jacketed vs. lead as well, for the reason that you brought up.

It was a normal six reload six speed shoot. The second half after the mandatory was a little dusty from the dirt behind the targets, but what made it rough was the combination of lead smoke and the setting sun.

After that, I decided to eliminate lead from the equation and happy days are here!

Rich

[Quigley]

I don't really like shooting lead for two reasons...too dirty and shoots much softer than FMJ's (to the point that the timing of the gun is noticably different)

I use cheap plated bullets for practice (Frontier) and Harnady HAP's for matches...

Seems like a good cost comprimise

Cheers

[Shipster]

Well I had a box of 180 TC jacketed bullets that I had picked up when I bought my P16-40 and Sunday evening I load up about 450 of them and I'm going to go back out to the range this week and try them at about the same time in the evening and see what happens. The other shooters were having the same problem, everybody there that evening was shooting lead except Run-N-Gun and he was using the Masterblaster bullets and his was still smokey but not as bad.

Steve

[EricW]

Shipster,

I really think ambient conditions (temp/humidity/wind) play a large factor as far as the smoke goes. Which is probably a good reason to stay away from lead if your budget allows it (mine doesn't). The price difference between lead and jacketed is somewhere around $20 to $30 per K. For me, $50 to 100 per month is money I'd rather have in my pocket, so I'll probably keep trying to make lead work for at least part of the season.

(I cannot wait until I'm out of school. My first act will be to order a pallet of bullets from MG.)

[MoNsTeR]

100% Plated.

[Chuck D]

I use lead almost exclusively after years of shooting jacketed only. The only exception is the very few times I shoot at an indoor range.

If you pick a quality lead bullet and a clean burning powder...smoke and gun clean-up isn't really a big issue.

I like keeping that extra 20-30 bucks in my pocket...can use it to enter more matches.

In 45acp, 185 or 200 grain LSWC, WW Super Target powder = 1.5 inch groups at 25 yds with virtually NO leading of the barrel.

Of course, this would change if I shot Open Division...here I wouldn't bother with lead because of the velocities involved or Production Division where you can buy Winchester factory ammo cheaper than you can reload it for (9mm).

[rhino]

I've been shooting FMJ (230gr .45) almost exclusively for a few years now, but I am considering going to 200gr LSWC for NRA Action Pistol because they are significantly more accurate than 230gr ball from every gun I've shot. The cloud of smoke is a detriment in USPSA and IDPA, but I think it will be less of a factor in NRA AP, especially for strings at longer distances when the times are ... generous.

[Harmon]

i shoot glock in production, that normally means no lead.

exception are the precision bullets. i shot them when you could get 9mm bullets, right now they arent makin 9mms,

rainiers and Accurate arms number 2 are my glocks new best friend.

with my 45, though jacketed bullets are lots more expensive than lead.

so much that i havent fired but 100 rounds of jacketed bullets through my pistol. thats IT. 5900 rounds of lead, 100 rounds of jacketed.

my pistol shoots accurate without leading, smoke is a problem when relative humidity and temp are around 100. 10 AM is the smokiest time of the day in texas to shoot lead in my 45, i practice mostly at nite about 9 or 10 pm. nobody at the range, lots of once fired brass laying everwhere and its cool, not alot of visible smoke.

reloading the 9mm can be done cheaper than you can buy them...

rainiers at 3-4 cents each, primers cost about 1.5 cents, and about a penny for powder... 6.50 a hundred...i dont think you can buy them for that,, but if you can afford to shoot only factory loads, go for it... i appreciate the brass.

[eric nielsen]

JHP's only. I like my blood enough to keep lead out of it.

Kinda like 33dB earplugs & 29dB muffs. I could spend less - for instance, never buy earplugs - but I like my hearing enough to spend the money required.

Also, I like driving myself enough to pay for a car, instead of taking the bus. Just one point of view.

[sargenv]

I shoot exclusively plated (West Coast). I buy in quantities sufficient to keep the cost down by $20-25 a thousand over Jacketed. I have not yet gotten to the point where I can tell an accuracy difference, and the gun goes bang and the little holes appear where I point the gun. I used to use Bear Creek, but it became harder to find, so I just get the West Coast and have no issues.

Heck, I buy in enough quantity that 50 9's cost in the neighborhood of $3.25 a box and 40's are like $6 a box. Why spend more when I don't have to? I've also found that trading once fired rare brass for once fired common brass can be a good thing..

Vince

[warpspeed]

I believe that you should practice with the same thing you compete with.

No one has 2 barrels - one for practice & one for matches - that the switch out. Do they?

[kimel]

I used to shoot a lot of LaserCast for both match and practice. No leading issues to speak of but the smoke was killer. I am relatively sure that a lot of the smoke comes from the bullet lube. As an experiment I once stripped the lube off a few bullets and loaded them up keeping them well separated from the other stuff. Shooting out of a dirty barrel there was noticably less smoke with the lube-free bullets than there was from the lubed bullets.

May have just been right conditions type of thing and I never repeated the experiment.

My theory on the Precision and MasterBlaster bullets is that the coating eliminates the lube and thus, eliminates the smoke. But that is just my pet theory.

I switched to jacketted shortly after this experiment and never looked back. The price difference between LaserCast and MGs wasn't only like $5/thousand at the time I switched so I couldn't see putting up with the smoke. [pun intended]

I was shooting a LSWC and switched to a jacketted CMJ. I sure do miss those nice crisp SWC holes in targets.

I tried Berry plated for awhile too but the cost was so close to "real" jacketted that I didn't stick with them.

[EricW]

The price difference between LaserCast and MGs wasn't only like $5/thousand at the time I switched so I couldn't see putting up with the smoke. [pun intended]

Damn Kevin!

Was that in the mesozoic or paleolithic era?

Fortunately I'm able to get Berry's for the same price as Lasercasts right now, so I probably won't go back to shooting lead other than to burn up the last 1K I have in the ammo bucket.

I wish I could afford to buy a used commercial casting machine and roll my own. It'd be fun to mess with the plating too.

[Shipster]

I used to shoot a lot of LaserCast for both match and practice.  No leading issues to speak of but the smoke was killer.  I am relatively sure that a lot of the smoke comes from the bullet lube.

Kimel that's what I found with the LaserCast bullets and another companies bullets called Burges Bullets. No leading but the smoke can be bad at times. Well I guess that I'm going to have to find a local source for jacketed or at least plated bullets.

That was one advantage of lead bullets was the selection and the availability of them from retail outlets, which usually translates into saving $$$. I was paying $42.00/1000 for laser cast 40cal 180 TC's and no shipping, so I think I have my work cut out for me to find a good local source for the jacketed or plated bullets.

Wow I wasn't expecting to see this large of a gap between jacketed and lead, I was really expecting to see a 50, 25, 25 in percentages. Well this survey did answer my question.

Thanks all

[JFD]

I cast my own using a pair of 6 cavity moulds and a combo of range scrap and wheel weights. Cost per 1000 is around $2 as the equipment was paid for after the first casting session.

I can pick and choose my lube, and have found that Blue Angel and Rooster Red Zambini smoke less than anything else.

My standard powder has been W231, but a recent test showed Clays to generate less smoke so I'm going to be testing that further.

So far I've had smoke be an issue for about 2 seconds in the 5 years I've been competing. Accuracy of my cast bullets is on par with anything you'll ever shoot.

Just to play it safe as far as smoke goes, I did switch to Rainier plated 230 JHPs for the section match I shot, but lead would have been fine.

Of course I'm shooting 220 LRN in a .45, and smoke and leading would be more of a problem as the velocity increases, even just switching to a 200 SWC would likely be worse.

2$ per 1000 bullets is something I'm not about to give up.

[Chuck D]

Lead contamination from the bullet is a red herring in and of itself. I have my lead-blood level tested every 6 months (along with normal diabetes testing for the doctors review) and my lead levels are virtually nil.

The lead in the primer is more hazardous to you as far as contact is concerned than exposure to the hard cast bullet itself (according to Winchester Reps.)

Soap and water takes care of the lead on your face and hands.