Physical fitness level

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

50 yard sprints with all of my 3gun gear on, carrying my rifle, stopping at a shooting box, and putting 2 in the A-zone at 50yds, walk back and repeat until p-mag is empty.

This is one of my favorites!

I honestly like draw, sprint laterally 3 yards, engage Target 1, then holster, reset, and go back the other way to engage Target 2.

[PKT1106]

I always thought a great stage would be a 1 mile run followed by engaging a single target from behind cover. The idea wasn't popular with many other shooters.

Probably because some of the other shooters only go miles in a car.

[Chris iliff]

The whole fitness thing kinda cracks me up. What do we do, run marathons? Nope, we move short distances efficiently.

What is required? Lance Armstrong lungs? Nope. Years ago I read a post about the physical fitness of our champions. Premise being a "true athlete" with our skills would smoke us. Blah, blah, blah. Ain't seen it yet.

Do we benefit ourselves and our shooting by being fit? Well of course we do!! But, we should seriously consider EXACTLY how fit we need to be in order to win, give ourselves the chance to win, anyway.

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

Be fit, work out, it is gonna help, I would suggest balancing the fitness part though. Fit enough to finish a level 2 feeling good as when you started is my goal. Doesn't take much.

[BillD]

I always thought a great stage would be a 1 mile run followed by engaging a single target from behind cover. The idea wasn't popular with many other shooters.

Probably because some of the other shooters only go miles in a car.

Because our hobby is shooting and not running?

Thank gawd

[PKT1106]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

[BillD]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting, not your personal best bench press.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting. DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

[BillD]

When two shooters of EQUAL shooting ability are side by side, the fitter of the two will almost always win. Yes, you can be slower and carry some extra weight around the middle and still stomp everyone at a match. Its been done before and will be done again. But you gotta have excellent shooting skills to make up for the slower footwork. But all other things being equal, yes, being in better physical shape will help you with your shooting. I'm about 35lbs lighter than I was last year, and am looking forward to seeing how it improves my game this year.

Did it help at the SS Nats? Did you do better than last year?

[spanky]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting, not your personal best bench press.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting. DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

so you're saying two guys with absolutely equal skill and shooting ability but ~100 pounds difference between them will have the exact same times over 5 or 8 or 12 stages?

[ZoomZoom]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting, not your personal best bench press.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting. DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

"Practical" shooting.

If we just stood there and shot I'd have zero interest in the sport.

[Chris iliff]

I am saying fitness should be balanced. How fit do I need to be? Decathlon fit? Marathon fit? If I'm that fit, I'm not shooting much, no one would have the time.

Bill is correct. DVC is all about the GUN. Now you could extrapolate that out to include your fitness if you want. I actually would applaud that thinking. But, that's not what the original meaning of DVC was intended to be.

Spanky, I'm definitely not saying that 2 guys equal in everything but weight are gonna have the same times. But, I guess that depends on what type of weight too, fat or muscle.

I am saying that an out of shape "shooter" does, and can beat an in shape fitness nut, that spends his shooting time in the gym, more often than not. Our sport is first and foremost a shooting sport.

If your going to the gym for 3 hours a week working out, you are going to be better off, period. But, it's not the magic bullet. That only comes from shooting practice. I hope your guns in your hand that long or more each week.

My intent was to get people "shooters" to really think about the level of fitness that's required for our sport. Fitness is important in anything we do. I'd encourage anyone to get fit and exercise. I would not encourage them to go over board on fitness. I would encourage them to contemplate exactly how fit they need to be and set some goals towards that end. Shooting is primary. Our biggest gains in our shooting performance will come from our shooting practices.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Chris iliff

[Chris iliff]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

You miss the point.

That's a spin off of a very good quote about practicing. Look

It up, it starts something like, "When you are not practicing, someone, somewhere is...."

I practice a lot, and workout (run) several times a week

FYI.

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

The whole fitness thing kinda cracks me up. What do we do, run marathons? Nope, we move short distances efficiently.

What is required? Lance Armstrong lungs? Nope.

You're completely right that practical shooting isn't an endurance sport, but endurance is not the one and only measure of fitness. If the goal is to move short distances efficiently, then it helps to improve your ability to move short distances efficiently -- your agility -- and improving your power-to-weight ratio improves that.

Years ago I read a post about the physical fitness of our champions. Premise being a "true athlete" with our skills would smoke us. Blah, blah, blah. Ain't seen it yet.

Practical shooting just isn't that competitive, compared to "big" sports, like football, baseball, and basketball. In fact, baseball is an almost perfect example of a sport like shooting, where skill is far more important than athleticism, but where the level of competition yields phenomenal athletes, because every little advantage matters when you're fighting to get into (and stay in) the major leagues.

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting.

Depending on your skill level and your fitness level, 10 minutes of fitness training might improve your scores more than 10 more minutes of shooting.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Not-So-Mad Matt

[Chris iliff]

Depending on your skill level and your fitness level, 10 minutes of fitness training might improve your scores more than 10 more minutes of shooting.

I agree, ten minutes of fitness a day and a good diet would be better than 10 more minutes of shooting for an out of shape shooter. Great minds think alike.

You are thinking and doing exactly my point. You illustrated it perfectly in your post, kudos!!

Edited May 7, 2012 by Chris iliff

[BillD]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting, not your personal best bench press.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting. DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

so you're saying two guys with absolutely equal skill and shooting ability but ~100 pounds difference between them will have the exact same times over 5 or 8 or 12 stages?

NO, IMO 100# is pretty much morbidly obese. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the guy who doesn't work out, who carries maybe 40-50# too much. You know, like Taran.

[spanky]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting, not your personal best bench press.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting. DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

so you're saying two guys with absolutely equal skill and shooting ability but ~100 pounds difference between them will have the exact same times over 5 or 8 or 12 stages?

NO, IMO 100# is pretty much morbidly obese. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the guy who doesn't work out, who carries maybe 40-50# too much. You know, like Taran.

40-50 is still a lot. still performance inhibiting, in my opinion. mine might be an opinion that could be considered biased, though.

[BillD]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting, not your personal best bench press.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

It's the speed, power and accuracy of the shooting. DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

so you're saying two guys with absolutely equal skill and shooting ability but ~100 pounds difference between them will have the exact same times over 5 or 8 or 12 stages?

NO, IMO 100# is pretty much morbidly obese. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the guy who doesn't work out, who carries maybe 40-50# too much. You know, like Taran.

40-50 is still a lot. still performance inhibiting, in my opinion. mine might be an opinion that could be considered biased, though.

So might mine

[RangerTrace]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

You miss the point.

That's a spin off of a very good quote about practicing. Look

It up, it starts something like, "When you are not practicing, someone, somewhere is...."

I practice a lot, and workout (run) several times a week

FYI.

In my line of work, they have posters with bulked up felons, training in the prison weight room........printed just under your quote. Practice is replaced with training....

[RangerTrace]

I don't think anybody reading this thread or involved with this Sport would argue that being more fit/flexible is a huge advantage in practical shooting. Finding the most advantageous ratio of fitness training vs. live/dry fire practice is the Holy Grail...

I know without a doubt if I'd have discovered this sport before I trashed my knee wakeboarding.....I'd already be a Master or GM. WIth that said, I have to say, that physical fitness and the ability to move quickly between shooting positions are extremely important.. FWIW, I know several "heavier" people who move much faster than me

[steviesterno]

I think it's an easy thing to see for yourself. Shoot a typical match wearing a backpack with 25 pounds of dead weight in it. See how quickly you move, how tired your neck and back and legs get, and how your scores go.

I've recently lost about 50 pounds and have jumped from low C to hopefully A this season. Yes, I've practiced, but losing weight really helped.

I got 40 pounds of lead bullets and carried them up the stairs to my apartment. It was tiring! I said to myself, "damn, you used to haul this EVERY flight of stairs and EVERY step". Much better without it

[PKT1106]

DVC has nothing to do with being strong or fast on your feet.

Then why to we time shooters on the course of fire?

[PKT1106]

Every minute I'm in the gym, some fat, out of shape, 10 years older than me guy/girl is shooting. When we meet, I'll be a really fit finisher,...... Below them.

If you really believe the last two words, given that this sport is suppose to balance speed, accuracy and power, you may have already finished below them in your head.

You miss the point. That's a spin off of a very good quote about practicing. LookIt up, it starts something like, "When you are not practicing, someone, somewhere is...." I practice a lot, and workout (run) several times a weekFYI.

I got it. While you're sitting there, your enemy is training. But even Navy Seals don't practice flat-out shooting all the time. They PT like crazy.

The point is to blend the shooting and physical fitness to your personal style. If you like to shoot only, practice that and waddle from target to target, but get A's. If you like to be a speed demon, work on that, but be prepared to lose some points. Find a ratio that suits you.

[BillD]

Navy SEALs? Navy SEALs do a lot that doesn't involve shooting. I'm not preparing for war here.

I'm thinking there may be some on here that would enjoy Marine Corps boot camp. Get to work out all the time, shoot some and get paid!

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Navy SEALs do a lot that doesn't involve shooting.

Yeah, a Navy SEALs course of fire would start with an air drop over water and wouldn't end after thirty seconds of short sprints and shooting. We're not competing on the whole insertion part that leads up to the firefight.

[BillD]

Navy SEALs do a lot that doesn't involve shooting.

Yeah, a Navy SEALs course of fire would start with an air drop over water and wouldn't end after thirty seconds of short sprints and shooting. We're not competing on the whole insertion part that leads up to the firefight.

Yep, better be in top shape for that.

Not sure what this has to do with USPSA

[RangerTrace]

Navy SEALs do a lot that doesn't involve shooting.

Yeah, a Navy SEALs course of fire would start with an air drop over water and wouldn't end after thirty seconds of short sprints and shooting. We're not competing on the whole insertion part that leads up to the firefight.

Yep, better be in top shape for that.

Not sure what this has to do with USPSA

I hope that is has a little to do with USPSA and practical shooting in general. I think Jeff Cooper probably had real world application in mind when he "invented" practical shooting....