Nick Weidhaas Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 If anyone knows were I can find a new or like new SV Open gun in .38 super comp, please let me know. My 11 yr old son and I just took a 2 day course with Todd Jarrett (highly recommended) and it was recommended that he shoot an open gun vs. a limited gun. I'm in MA so I can't get a STI as they are not on our State roster of approved firearms (SV is on the roster). I called JP rifles and SV Inc. and they have nothing in stock. If you know of anything, please let me know. Thanks, Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve223 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Nick Did you check the USPSA web site? I see SVs for sale there pretty often. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Is Caspian ok? Local guy has one with high caps cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Is Caspian ok? Local guy has one with high caps cheap Caspians are not on "the list", so it is a felony for a dealer to transfer one to a MA resident unless it can be shown that the individual firearm was posessed on a MA handgun license prior to a particular date in 1998. Interestingly enough, this is a restriction imposed only on MA licensed dealers, not individual sales (but the interstate prohibition on handgun sales closes that avenue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 EEK I thought CA, NY and HI were bad!!! PS What do I post for my 1000th post??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 tj is the expert, but i'd seriouly look at a production gun for the pup....until he gets older. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 My Son is 9 and he's shooting a Glock 17. Start him out with Iron sights before you let him go to the "Dark Side" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgrc1 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I have been told that open guns are usually better to start kids on, I have a 10 year old daughter and are about to start her with an Open gun, it appears they are 2 main benefits: a) the impact andd felt recoil that is transfered to the the shooter is less with the Open than with a Lim or PD and It´s easier to track one dot that to be thinking about sight alignment, thus making it even more fun for them to shoot and concentrate on other aspects of the sport. BTW, I have also been told that they later pick up very quickly the iron sights - no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Open guns allow a new shooter to see what is going on. They only have to worry about seeing the target. Limited guns require target focus and sight focus depending on the distance to the target and/or the difficulty of the shot. Secondly, a dot really helps you learn to shoot on the move, a critical skill. The accuracy, reduced recoil and muzzle flip should all give him confidence, which is a good thing for a new shooter. He has been shooting a .38 super single stack Caspian and a SV limited .40 for the last 7 months. He has been shooting a Custom Ruger 10/22 for the last 4 years and a shotgun for about a year. I think an open gun is the right move at this point in his development and skill level. I also agree that learing to shoot an open gun will make him a better limited gun shooter later on. Thanks for your input and suggestions. Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I have to disagree. As a Junior who started at 11, who is now 14, I feel that the low cost, recoil and report are better for a young Junior. I paid for half of my G34, and most of my holsters, mag pouches, and any mods I wanted on the gun. It taught me respect for my equitiment and (at times) having to shoot what I have because I didn't have the money to get the parts I wanted. Open guns are sharp and loud, and without the right stance and grip (but since you guys took Todd's class, that’s a moot point) and hearing protection can be very uncomfortable to shoot. Shooting 9x19, I was never scared of the gun and was very comfortable shooting it. I wanted to go Open most of the time I was shooting Production, however I didn't until last October. I know now that I'm a better shooter because I shot the Glock for close to 3 years before going Open, why? I'll get to that in just a second, let me address skills taught in each division and that should give a pretty clear answer. While Open does teach you how to shoot on the move better, its also about training focus, (try shooting 7" plates at 20 yards with a 4 lb trigger and .125 front sight, not easy) I learned to be smoother with the dot, but I learned how on iron sights. Also getting to, from, in, and out of positions quickly is INFINITELY more important than shooting on the move in my book, run a few drills on shoot-run-shoot, then shooting on the move, if movement is where is should be, and depending on how hard the shot is, alot of times shoot-run-shoot will yield a more consistent high factor and alot of times, a higher one. As far as accuracy goes, yeah, it is easier to shoot a dot. However, shooting minor teaches shooting points VERY quickly, if you have more than about 2 or 3 C's a stage, you're going downhill pretty fast. I also think that Production teaches better stage planning skills. There's really not much planning where to shoot a target to get a better angle or place to reload in Open with 27-29 round mags. In Production, there is alot of thought into how to shoot a stage. Another thing is the act of reloading itself, many Open shooters forget that, yeah, at times you have to reload. After reloading a glock with no magwell, an STI is like a cave to stick the mag into. Open guns are cool, but Production and Limited are cool too. I'd do the same thing over in a heartbeat, Production taught me that you don't have to have a fancy rig and gun to win. All you need is a decent rig, the right attitude, and the 3 fundamentals. And that is my final answer! Sorry for getting slightly into a skills debate and for being long-winded, but I would hate to see part of the future of the sport burned out or stop shooting because of an elbow injury because he went Open too soon. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. BJ Current VA/MD section champion and Master in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 BJ, Thanks very much for your reply. Having "been there, done that" your words are from the heart and based on experience. I'm sure there are very good arguments on both sides of this issue. Believe me, I do not want to hurt my son's shooting development in any way. He loves to shoot and he loves to shoot with his Dad, which is a pretty cool. I want to foster this as long as he wants to do it. I don't shove anything down his throat. I'm just there to support him. I'll give this issue some more thought and do some more research. Your point about teaching him responsibility and having him share in the expense of his shooting is valid and well taken. I'm actually doing this now. He is not a spoiled kid who gets everything handed to him on a silver platter by his rich Dad. I'm a Cop and don't make a lot of jing. However, my son is a great kid, gets straight A's and does contribute by buying bullets, powder, and other supplies when he gets a little cash. Last year he wanted to try archery and bought entry level equipment with his own money. You are pretty insightful and obviously mature for your years. I appreciate you taking the time to offer your opinion. Shoot well, Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 The most important ingredient in getting a junior to shoot, and stick with it as other activities take hold, is that they have fun. Rather than worry about what is "best" based on some training theory, I suggest you ask your junior what (s)he wants to shoot. I'd guess Nick has already done that, and it working on making it come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I have to disagree. As a Junior who started at 11, who is now 14, I feel that the low cost, recoil and report are better for a young Junior. I paid for half of my G34, and most of my holsters, mag pouches, and any mods I wanted on the gun. It taught me respect for my equitiment and (at times) having to shoot what I have because I didn't have the money to get the parts I wanted. Open guns are sharp and loud, and without the right stance and grip (but since you guys took Todd's class, that’s a moot point) and hearing protection can be very uncomfortable to shoot. Shooting 9x19, I was never scared of the gun and was very comfortable shooting it. I wanted to go Open most of the time I was shooting Production, however I didn't until last October. I know now that I'm a better shooter because I shot the Glock for close to 3 years before going Open, why? I'll get to that in just a second, let me address skills taught in each division and that should give a pretty clear answer. While Open does teach you how to shoot on the move better, its also about training focus, (try shooting 7" plates at 20 yards with a 4 lb trigger and .125 front sight, not easy) I learned to be smoother with the dot, but I learned how on iron sights. Also getting to, from, in, and out of positions quickly is INFINITELY more important than shooting on the move in my book, run a few drills on shoot-run-shoot, then shooting on the move, if movement is where is should be, and depending on how hard the shot is, alot of times shoot-run-shoot will yield a more consistent high factor and alot of times, a higher one. As far as accuracy goes, yeah, it is easier to shoot a dot. However, shooting minor teaches shooting points VERY quickly, if you have more than about 2 or 3 C's a stage, you're going downhill pretty fast. I also think that Production teaches better stage planning skills. There's really not much planning where to shoot a target to get a better angle or place to reload in Open with 27-29 round mags. In Production, there is alot of thought into how to shoot a stage. Another thing is the act of reloading itself, many Open shooters forget that, yeah, at times you have to reload. After reloading a glock with no magwell, an STI is like a cave to stick the mag into. Open guns are cool, but Production and Limited are cool too. I'd do the same thing over in a heartbeat, Production taught me that you don't have to have a fancy rig and gun to win. All you need is a decent rig, the right attitude, and the 3 fundamentals. And that is my final answer! Sorry for getting slightly into a skills debate and for being long-winded, but I would hate to see part of the future of the sport burned out or stop shooting because of an elbow injury because he went Open too soon. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. BJ Current VA/MD section champion and Master in Production. The only thing 14 about BJ is his age... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 From the 3-4 juniors I've watched, shooting Minor Open is a good way to get started for the youngest juniors. It's simpler and they can do well more quickly than trying to master a Glock trigger with dad right behind them yelling "Don't yank the trigger! Stop yanking the trigger!" (this is a whole separate problem). Iron sights take more practice and effort to use right. If the junior is just out there to have fun with dad on Saturday, let 'em shoot whatever's easiest. If they really want to be competitive, then BJ's advice is right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 This add probably needs to be in the classifieds section. He's not looking for opinions, he's looking for an open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted June 20, 2004 Author Share Posted June 20, 2004 The advice has been appreciated and you have all raised some great points. I've talked with my son and he wants to shoot an open gun and have some fun. I can't blame him. I'm going to try and support him in this if I can find a gun. I am still looking for an open gun (SV) if anyone knows of one. I found one at Speedshooter.com, but price is a little high. Benny Hill can build him one for less money in 6-8 weeks. I've also got a email into George at EGW. Just trying to find one he can shoot this summer. If anyone hears of one, please let me know. Rufus is probably right, I should have just posted this in the classifieds. Thanks, Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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