Vespid_Wasp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Scars were used in the semi's and the finals. But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact. 4th go was Voight v. Butler. Voight got a reshoot (not for a scope issue) and then spoke to the ROs at the rifle he had just shot. An RO shot the rifle, missed, took off the caps, touched the adjustments, shot a few, touched the adjustments again, shot a few more and then put the caps back on. Voight then beat Butler on the reshoot. That is as straight as I can relay my observation. Therein lies the problem. Im surprised the three guys who were beat didnt complain about a scope being re-zeroed. This should have been grounds for a re-shoot of the whole match. Again with the assumptions. Reread Mark's comment. As one who has court/legal experience he specifically indicates to you that although those of us in attendance saw the incident in question we still don't know if the adjustments were changed/confirmed/checked etc. only that they may have been questioned. If in fact adjustments were made an assumption could be made that the match administrators would have offered reshoots, and conversely if reshoots were not offered then the assumption would be no adjustments were made. My simple point is instead of making broad accusations of impropriety, stop and consider that nothing inappropriate occurred. The work that went in to making 3 Gun Nation successful for the last couple of years and growing incredibly quickly was phenomenal and not without significant risk. I think when questions arise they have earned the benefit of the doubt....and many thanks. How you can take the description of events and somehow glean from it that a rifle wasn't rezeroed has me scratching my head. I don't think anyone has suggested impropriety. I think that someone dropped the ball when the decision was made to change scopes and change ammunition, and a rifle wasn't properly zeroed. Mistakes happen. The situation could have been rectified after Voigt requested a zero correction by letting previous shooters reshoot as well. Again mistakes happen but it seems like the desire instead is to sweep the whole thing under a rug. Nobody has condemned 3GN or the sponsors because they have undoubtedly done a tremendous service to the sport. Major matches would not happen without the sponsors. But so far the evidence that I have seen suggests that a mistake was made, and the response so far has given me no confidence that it is even being acknowledged. How is this beneficial to the integrity of the sport as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufDog Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Scars were used in the semi's and the finals. But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact. 4th go was Voight v. Butler. Voight got a reshoot (not for a scope issue) and then spoke to the ROs at the rifle he had just shot. An RO shot the rifle, missed, took off the caps, touched the adjustments, shot a few, touched the adjustments again, shot a few more and then put the caps back on. Voight then beat Butler on the reshoot. That is as straight as I can relay my observation. Therein lies the problem. Im surprised the three guys who were beat didnt complain about a scope being re-zeroed. This should have been grounds for a re-shoot of the whole match. Again with the assumptions. Reread Mark's comment. As one who has court/legal experience he specifically indicates to you that although those of us in attendance saw the incident in question we still don't know if the adjustments were changed/confirmed/checked etc. only that they may have been questioned. If in fact adjustments were made an assumption could be made that the match administrators would have offered reshoots, and conversely if reshoots were not offered then the assumption would be no adjustments were made. My simple point is instead of making broad accusations of impropriety, stop and consider that nothing inappropriate occurred. The work that went in to making 3 Gun Nation successful for the last couple of years and growing incredibly quickly was phenomenal and not without significant risk. I think when questions arise they have earned the benefit of the doubt....and many thanks. How you can take the description of events and somehow glean from it that a rifle wasn't rezeroed has me scratching my head. I don't think anyone has suggested impropriety. I think that someone dropped the ball when the decision was made to change scopes and change ammunition, and a rifle wasn't properly zeroed. Mistakes happen. The situation could have been rectified after Voigt requested a zero correction by letting previous shooters reshoot as well. Again mistakes happen but it seems like the desire instead is to sweep the whole thing under a rug. Nobody has condemned 3GN or the sponsors because they have undoubtedly done a tremendous service to the sport. Major matches would not happen without the sponsors. But so far the evidence that I have seen suggests that a mistake was made, and the response so far has given me no confidence that it is even being acknowledged. How is this beneficial to the integrity of the sport as a whole? Well put by a reasonable voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 To be clear I was at SHOT but did not attend the shoot off so all I know about what happened was posted here and from talking to some of my friends who attended. During the course of walking around SHOT after the event concluded, I have bumped into most of the competitors who were fortunate enough to be a part of this event. At no time during any of those conversations have I heard a discouraging word about the event and how it was handled. All good shooters want events to be fair and well run but from the perspective of the competitors, I have not heard that it was not. It may have been the case that 3GN planned to use one rifle in the first brackets and switch to another in the finals and semi finals to another especially since FN and Stag are both sponsors. I do not know that to be true but suggest it could be a reasonable possibility. My point is that the shooters appear to be happy. This event was a giant step for the sponsors and greatly elevated our sport. If the shooters are happy and the sponsors are happy, there is no reason for the rest of us not to be happy also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35WLN Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Or maybe some one doesn't want to piss off their sponsers and lose what they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How you can take the description of events and somehow glean from it that a rifle wasn't rezeroed has me scratching my head. Scratch away. But how exactly do you know the turrets were adjusted from the above description. A likely explanation might be that the gun was shot, the caps removed to check witness marks made at initial zero, and then the caps returned and zero rechecked. Again, my point is, noone in this thread KNOWS what was done and until you do, lighten up on the accusations. I don't think anyone has suggested impropriety. I think that someone dropped the ball when the decision was made to change scopes and change ammunition, and a rifle wasn't properly zeroed. Mistakes happen. The situation could have been rectified after Voigt requested a zero correction by letting previous shooters reshoot as well. Again mistakes happen but it seems like the desire instead is to sweep the whole thing under a rug. Nobody has condemned 3GN or the sponsors because they have undoubtedly done a tremendous service to the sport. Major matches would not happen without the sponsors. But so far the evidence that I have seen suggests that a mistake was made, and the response so far has given me no confidence that it is even being acknowledged. How is this beneficial to the integrity of the sport as a whole? You can't in one breath state noone has suggested impropriety and then make blatant inference that a lack of response suggests a coverup. Which is it? Again a complete jump to conclusion. Did it occur to you that all of the individuals involved are probably just now getting home to family they have been away from for a week or more? Did it occur to you that while at SHOT they had many professional priorities over and above responding to internet accusation of wrongdoing? Especially when those who are making the accusations seem to ignore any information offered to counter their perceived concerns. Or maybe some one doesn't want to piss off their sponsers and lose what they have Yes, it was all a big conspiracy started two years ago only to culminate at the end of the world year SHOT Show 2012 mwaaahhhhaaahhhaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If something funky happened then it would behoove the guys who had cash on the line to pitch a bitch, as we have heard nothing like that happened it would seem to me that if the guys with 50k on the line where OK with the way it went then why should we care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianHE Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Anyone have a link to some video of any of it? Wow, I'm not too retarded with Google searching and all I found were some lame still photos... I thought NBC Sports would have something, but I searched, could not find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Not that I could have gone to SHOT anyway, but does anyone know why this was a "ticket required" affair? Just seems a bit strange that all the post-match shoot-offs have been public and then for the big year end finale, you've got to have a ticket to watch the fun. Not trying to further any of the rampant conspiracy theories - just curious. Edited January 23, 2012 by Fullauto_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not that I could have gone to SHOT anyway, but does anyone know why this was a "ticket required" affair? Just seems a bit strange that all the post-match shoot-offs have been public and then for the big year end finale, you've got to have a ticket to watch the fun. Not trying to further any of the rampant conspiracy theories - just curious. The tickets were free, so noone that I am aware of would have been stopped from getting them. I would venture a guess that the tickets served several purposes. 1) You could pick them up at the booths of 3GN sponsors so it increased their booth traffic. 2) Although the venue was large I am sure there was some limit as to the number of spectators it could accommodate. 3) Food and beverages were served, so again I am sure the tickets served a purpose in insuring there was enough refreshments without running out. 4) Even at a free cost, offering tickets only to those who were willing to seek them out increases the exclusivity of the event and creates substantial buzz thus increasing it's exposure and prestige. There may have been more reasons or none of these may have applied, but I think they are pretty good guesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not that I could have gone to SHOT anyway, but does anyone know why this was a "ticket required" affair? Just seems a bit strange that all the post-match shoot-offs have been public and then for the big year end finale, you've got to have a ticket to watch the fun. Not trying to further any of the rampant conspiracy theories - just curious. The range was a ways out of town and they ran a limited number of buses to and from and I suspect that limited the number of tickets they could hand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not that I could have gone to SHOT anyway, but does anyone know why this was a "ticket required" affair? Just seems a bit strange that all the post-match shoot-offs have been public and then for the big year end finale, you've got to have a ticket to watch the fun. Not trying to further any of the rampant conspiracy theories - just curious. The tickets were free, so noone that I am aware of would have been stopped from getting them. I would venture a guess that the tickets served several purposes. 1) You could pick them up at the booths of 3GN sponsors so it increased their booth traffic. 2) Although the venue was large I am sure there was some limit as to the number of spectators it could accommodate. 3) Food and beverages were served, so again I am sure the tickets served a purpose in insuring there was enough refreshments without running out. 4) Even at a free cost, offering tickets only to those who were willing to seek them out increases the exclusivity of the event and creates substantial buzz thus increasing it's exposure and prestige. There may have been more reasons or none of these may have applied, but I think they are pretty good guesses. Tickets were indeed free but that does not mean that they were giving them out. I was there within 15 minutes of the SHOT Show opening and was told by a guy with a suit and tie at one of the major sponsor booths that they had reserved all of their tickets for industry big wigs and insiders. When I walked away, it crossed my mind to go back and ask them how many of the people they had decided to hold their tickets for were their customers or even shot 3 gun. For me to identify that sponsor would do more harm than good. By the time I made it to 3 other sponsors they had indeed given all of their tickets out and I feel confident that was the case since at each of these other sponsor booths I was talking to people I knew and have every confidence they were being truthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The rumor I heard was it was free for anyone to show up and watch. The ticket they handed out got you a chance to win some of the giveaways. I was there and had a ticket (after searching 3 or 4 booths for one) but a few people around me didnt have one but were still there watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Conspiracy theorists abound! Let's all just wait a week or so and see if more concrete information regarding the alleged 'rezeroing' controversy surfaces. There's a lot of intense speculation and accusation being tossed around in this thread, and if you've been here more than a red-hot minute you know we don't play that way. Innocent until... Deep breaths, folks... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Does seem odd that the grand finale fn3g worth $50,000 and no video no where to be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The rumor I heard was it was free for anyone to show up and watch. The ticket they handed out got you a chance to win some of the giveaways. I was there and had a ticket (after searching 3 or 4 booths for one) but a few people around me didnt have one but were still there watching. Tickets were long gone by the time I got to the Show on Wednesday afternoon. That said it was no big deal attending without one. I don't know if you needed one for the bus 'cause i drove out in my truck. It seemed to be a BIG crowd and a lot of them being from outside of the game which is one of the great things about 3GN, they're exposing a lot of new people to our sport. Out of every 10 or so new shooters we might even get a 1 or 2 that like it enough to get involved in the match production side of things. It's all good. As for my previous post on the tracer ammo, I asked 'cause I didn't know. The only times i've ever fired the stuff was full-auto through an M249 (good fun but no way to know anything about accuracy). The tracers were fun from the spectator's standpoint. I look foward to seeing how they show up in the finished TV episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfuhrman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The rifles were Stags. up until I think the final 4, then they were switched to Scar 16's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Not that I could have gone to SHOT anyway, but does anyone know why this was a "ticket required" affair? Just seems a bit strange that all the post-match shoot-offs have been public and then for the big year end finale, you've got to have a ticket to watch the fun. Not trying to further any of the rampant conspiracy theories - just curious. The tickets were free, so noone that I am aware of would have been stopped from getting them. I would venture a guess that the tickets served several purposes. 1) You could pick them up at the booths of 3GN sponsors so it increased their booth traffic. 2) Although the venue was large I am sure there was some limit as to the number of spectators it could accommodate. 3) Food and beverages were served, so again I am sure the tickets served a purpose in insuring there was enough refreshments without running out. 4) Even at a free cost, offering tickets only to those who were willing to seek them out increases the exclusivity of the event and creates substantial buzz thus increasing it's exposure and prestige. There may have been more reasons or none of these may have applied, but I think they are pretty good guesses. Thanks for the info - just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I tend to think that the reason we have seen no video is because the usual video tapping shooters were absent. And taking a video camera to SHOT is not second nature. The word was that you had to have a ticket to get on the bus and to return on the bus and I suspect most people who did not have a ticket also did not have a rental car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just to put another spoke into this wheel...all shooters that were in the shoot-off got a 30 min window to practice on the course of fire before the Finale began earlier in the same day. They got to shoot the weapons and all the targets were the same...I helped the day/night before the match and know this. Now the only change was the tracer ammo...the only real unknown. Great match however very cold. All were great ambassadors for our sport. Congrats to Team FNH...they could not have scripted a better final outcome. RLTW, Sincerely, Busyhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootfastRunfaster Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The rumor I heard was it was free for anyone to show up and watch. The ticket they handed out got you a chance to win some of the giveaways. I was there and had a ticket (after searching 3 or 4 booths for one) but a few people around me didnt have one but were still there watching. That seems to be the way it went. The ticket was only for the prize drawings. We boarded one of the buses and there was no ticket check and then watched the event after turning in the stub for the drawing. It was a public range and there were no provisions for making the are restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianHE Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) What kind of "Championship match" happens and there's no video? WTH? WHERE's the VIDS?! ANSWER: It's coming! Chris, were working on it. Should have a teaser out soon. We also are producing it into a tv show to air next month so we have a lot of work to do. We can't "give away" all the best winning footage until after the show hits the air – per our agreement with the NBC Network. There is no controversy. If a rifle is out of zero for a competitor they are allowed to question it and ask for zero to be verified – immediately following the bout. In the case of the Las Vegas event, only one competitor made such a request, and his request was granted by the CRO. No other zero verification requests were made to anyone at any other time during the competition. Case closed. The onus to claim "out of zero" falls on the competitors – as they are the ones pulling the trigger during competition. This has been our rule for the past 2 seasons. Speculation after the fact is for internet chat rooms. Thanks for your interest and future support! Pete Brown pete@3gunnation.com Edited January 25, 2012 by ChristianHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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