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3 Gun Nation Finale


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Did a gag order get put on this deal? What was going on with the scopes being rezeroed after three guys from the same side were eliminated very soundly??? Anyone???

Unbelievable that they would rezero one rifle without giving a reshoot to everyone who had already shot that rifle. Especially considering that the issue was apparent enough that when a rezero was requested, it was granted. Unfortunate and easily avoidable......

I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

No stage guns. Competitors use their own gear.

I detect some obfuscation :rolleyes:

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Did a gag order get put on this deal? What was going on with the scopes being rezeroed after three guys from the same side were eliminated very soundly??? Anyone???

Unbelievable that they would rezero one rifle without giving a reshoot to everyone who had already shot that rifle. Especially considering that the issue was apparent enough that when a rezero was requested, it was granted. Unfortunate and easily avoidable......

I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

No stage guns. Competitors use their own gear.

I detect some obfuscation :rolleyes:

Really? I'm not sure how what I posted could have been any more clear. Perhaps you could be more specific.

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I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

I doubt any of those guys tossed the equipment about any differently than they would their own.

Which begs the question which optic/mount wasn't holding zero?

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I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

tap

Edited by Mike P
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Did a gag order get put on this deal? What was going on with the scopes being rezeroed after three guys from the same side were eliminated very soundly??? Anyone???

Unbelievable that they would rezero one rifle without giving a reshoot to everyone who had already shot that rifle. Especially considering that the issue was apparent enough that when a rezero was requested, it was granted. Unfortunate and easily avoidable......

I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

I gotta wonder about the accuracy of the tracer ammo. :unsure:

It would be interesting to group some on paper.

One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

No stage guns. Competitors use their own gear.

I detect some obfuscation :rolleyes:

Really? I'm not sure how what I posted could have been any more clear. Perhaps you could be more specific.

Not your post, all the posts together. ;)

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Which begs the question which optic/mount wasn't holding zero?

The scopes need to be mounted properly, and then need to be to be zeroed correctly. This is where the problem was, if there was one.

If there is an issue, then it is between the 8 shooters and the shoot-off organizers. I will almost guarrantee you one thing; all eight shooters will agree that 3GN and the awesome 50k shootoff was good for them, and good for the sport. Did issues happen? Every organized match has crap go wrong. The 3GN tour has learned a lot along the way and will continue to improve.

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The mounts I've always seen used have been Warne Ramp Mounts. The scopes last year were Leupold and Weaver, but I think they stopped using the Weaver scopes this year. I seriously doubt there is an issue with the quality of the mount or the optic. I also doubt that Team FNH doesn't know how to put either on a gun. It's in FN's interest to have equipment that works and shines at this type of event. I know last year they zero'd the guns before the final competition (because I did it). There was an issue where someone said it wasn't zero'd. Someone fired it again (I think that one was Thacker or Houck) and the guns hit just fine. The only way to eliminate this is to have a complete set of 8 guns, one for each (well three really) competitor and let them zero and retain the guns for the duration of the shootoff. That's a lot, about 50K worth of guns, optics and cans tied up for the shootoff guns, plus the time everybody would screw around "zeroing" (practicing) with the guns before the shootoff began.

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You can't let the competitors use their own equipment, as some of them are Open shooters, some a Optics and some are Irons.

I don't see that it would matter much for these shoot offs. I've never seen a shotgun reload in a shootoff. I'm not sure the optic on the handgun and shotgun are really any faster, and the rifle is all long range stuff... so the additional red dot that many open guys use would be moot.

*shrug*

I guess I just don't see how using stage guns that everyone is unfamiliar with is a better test of shooting skill than letting everyone shoot their own equipment.

I don't really want to see an equipment race to open, but I'm not so sure that would happen anyway when you consider the format of the shootoffs.

If stage guns are going to continue to be used there needs to be a little bit more quality control... for lack of a better term.. in how they are prepped.

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You can't let the competitors use their own equipment, as some of them are Open shooters, some a Optics and some are Irons.

I don't see that it would matter much for these shoot offs. I've never seen a shotgun reload in a shootoff. I'm not sure the optic on the handgun and shotgun are really any faster, and the rifle is all long range stuff... so the additional red dot that many open guys use would be moot.

*shrug*

I guess I just don't see how using stage guns that everyone is unfamiliar with is a better test of shooting skill than letting everyone shoot their own equipment.

I don't really want to see an equipment race to open, but I'm not so sure that would happen anyway when you consider the format of the shootoffs.

If stage guns are going to continue to be used there needs to be a little bit more quality control... for lack of a better term.. in how they are prepped.

FN hasn't sunk,conservatively, a quarter million dollars into the 3 Gun Nation tour for folks to use their own guns. Make no mistake, the shootoffs and show are commercial ventures. Not bad just what it is. FN has supported this venture to show what their guns can do. Doesn't really work if they aren't used.

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One of the problems with the format using "pickup" guns is they get tossed around a little by each competitor. Not so much an issue with the pistols or shotguns but surely with the scoped rifles. Wish I could think of a solution to the problem.

How about simply finishing with the rifle?

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The rifles were Stags.

Scars were used in the semi's and the finals.

But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact.

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I watched every run and I did not see the rifles being "tossed". James and I also discussed the issue of tracer ammo typically being less accurate, but we were told it was Federal Premium. 6" plate at about 50 yards though, so it would have to be real bad. Last, there WERE reloads, on shotgun pistol and rifle, in fact several. The "rules" and such were spoken to the competitors, not over the PA system so we are assuming that the 60 round Surefire mags mags were loaded with 10 rounds.

BTW, the final between Thacker and Hanish had them shooting pistol on an 8 plate "Propeller Plate Rack" from MGM.

Edited by MarkCO
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Scars were used in the semi's and the finals.

But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact.

4th go was Voight v. Butler. Voight got a reshoot (not for a scope issue) and then spoke to the ROs at the rifle he had just shot. An RO shot the rifle, missed, took off the caps, touched the adjustments, shot a few, touched the adjustments again, shot a few more and then put the caps back on. Voight then beat Butler on the reshoot.

That is as straight as I can relay my observation.

Edited by MarkCO
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Which begs the question which optic/mount wasn't holding zero?

The scopes need to be mounted properly, and then need to be to be zeroed correctly. This is where the problem was, if there was one.

If there is an issue, then it is between the 8 shooters and the shoot-off organizers. I will almost guarrantee you one thing; all eight shooters will agree that 3GN and the awesome 50k shootoff was good for them, and good for the sport. Did issues happen? Every organized match has crap go wrong. The 3GN tour has learned a lot along the way and will continue to improve.

So, was there a re-zero on one of the rifles sometime during the competition or not? I'm just curious as to what actually happened. No one seems know for sure, or they're not telling.

Its clear that there were only 8 with skin in the game so to speak and I'm happy if they are.

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Scars were used in the semi's and the finals.

But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact.

4th go was Voight v. Butler. Voight got a reshoot (not for a scope issue) and then spoke to the ROs at the rifle he had just shot. An RO shot the rifle, missed, took off the caps, touched the adjustments, shot a few, touched the adjustments again, shot a few more and then put the caps back on. Voight then beat Butler on the reshoot.

That is as straight as I can relay my observation.

Therein lies the problem. Im surprised the three guys who were beat didnt complain about a scope being re-zeroed. This should have been grounds for a re-shoot of the whole match.

Edited by abn-rgr
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You can't let the competitors use their own equipment, as some of them are Open shooters, some a Optics and some are Irons.

More importantly the fine sponsors that put up the prize money are paying to show case their guns, gear and optics. Without their stuff it's just for fun.

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Did a gag order get put on this deal? What was going on with the scopes being rezeroed after three guys from the same side were eliminated very soundly??? Anyone???

Unbelievable that they would rezero one rifle without giving a reshoot to everyone who had already shot that rifle. Especially considering that the issue was apparent enough that when a rezero was requested, it was granted. Unfortunate and easily avoidable......

This seems to me to be the only viable answer. Who were the last guys to touch the rifles before the shoot-off started? Did RO's zero the rifles??

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Did a gag order get put on this deal? What was going on with the scopes being rezeroed after three guys from the same side were eliminated very soundly??? Anyone???

Unbelievable that they would rezero one rifle without giving a reshoot to everyone who had already shot that rifle. Especially considering that the issue was apparent enough that when a rezero was requested, it was granted. Unfortunate and easily avoidable......

This seems to me to be the only viable answer. Who were the last guys to touch the rifles before the shoot-off started? Did RO's zero the rifles??

Kalani and I zeroed the Stag rifles all season. We did not zero the stag rifles at the finale.

We also used the leupold Hammer prototypes all season. Different optics were used on these rifles. I heard they used they new 1-6x leupold

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The rifles were Stags.

Scars were used in the semi's and the finals.

But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact.

Lol! You can tell when my buddies Phil and Rustin lost; I kinda lost interest and started to migrate towards getting another beer and brat!

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Congratulations to the top 8 shooters in the finale. Huge thanks to the staff working the event. My appreciation to all the sponsors' support.

And an even bigger thanks to Chad, Pete, and 3 Gun Nation for organizing this awesome show. They got primetime television, a ton of media coverage,and happy spectators, in Las Vegas. This was epic for all who love 3 Gun as much as I do.

Kalani

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Scars were used in the semi's and the finals.

But on this note does anyone here KNOW the optics were rezeroed? Typical internet pitchfork and torch mentality. A mere suggestion and all of a sudden there is a huge conspiracy and conjecture has become fact.

4th go was Voight v. Butler. Voight got a reshoot (not for a scope issue) and then spoke to the ROs at the rifle he had just shot. An RO shot the rifle, missed, took off the caps, touched the adjustments, shot a few, touched the adjustments again, shot a few more and then put the caps back on. Voight then beat Butler on the reshoot.

That is as straight as I can relay my observation.

Therein lies the problem. Im surprised the three guys who were beat didnt complain about a scope being re-zeroed. This should have been grounds for a re-shoot of the whole match.

Again with the assumptions. Reread Mark's comment. As one who has court/legal experience he specifically indicates to you that although those of us in attendance saw the incident in question we still don't know if the adjustments were changed/confirmed/checked etc. only that they may have been questioned.

If in fact adjustments were made an assumption could be made that the match administrators would have offered reshoots, and conversely if reshoots were not offered then the assumption would be no adjustments were made.

My simple point is instead of making broad accusations of impropriety, stop and consider that nothing inappropriate occurred.

The work that went in to making 3 Gun Nation successful for the last couple of years and growing incredibly quickly was phenomenal and not without significant risk. I think when questions arise they have earned the benefit of the doubt....and many thanks.

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