bigbrowndog Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 How about all those people that keep coming up with "new" ways and rules to improve the current matches, division, etc, just hold their own match Then we can decide if we like the "new" ways of doing things. Rather than try and get others to change what they already have, and works!!!! Think of the number of "new" matches we would have to choose from, think of the numbers of "new" shooters that we would entice to come and play. Trapr, sarcasm mode off now!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Crazy talk! JUST DO WHAT I WANT! me me me me me me me me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMuffin Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 They do. I can't remember EVER being to a 3-gun match (granted I haven't attended that many) that advertised as following a certain rule set that did NOT have some sort of exception or change. Everyone's gotta monkey with it, I don't get it. One match claimed as being USPSA multigun rules and when I pointed out to the MD that this was an outlaw match due to his rule changes (treatment of clays and some scoring of long range targets) he went ballistic insisting that "we are NOT an OUTLAW match!". Whatever bud... went my way and tried to have fun shooting the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yep. If you are the one putting on the match, come up with whatever rules you want. Preferrably ahead of time (like before you take entries). And stick with them. MDs are doing the work, it is their perspective what the rules need to be to make their match the best it can be. If you don't like them...don't shoot the match. I don't like 1x optics in TI, I whined shamelessly about it for a month or so. But I am not motivated enough to have an "irons-only" match (or buy a prismatic) so I shut up. Plus only about 11 people would show up for the match anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now Trapr, thats just crazy talk....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmdCtzn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I put on three multi-gun matches each year. I limit rifle mags to thirty rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How about all those people that keep coming up with "new" ways and rules to improve the current matches, division, etc, just hold their own match Then we can decide if we like the "new" ways of doing things. Rather than try and get others to change what they already have, and works!!!! Think of the number of "new" matches we would have to choose from, think of the numbers of "new" shooters that we would entice to come and play. Trapr, sarcasm mode off now!!!!! So the only people who are qualified to make rules suggestions are match directors? Sort of like saying that the only folks who can take photos of donkeys are those wearing green shirts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) While I agree the credit goes to the "Man in the ring fighting the fight"; from an improvement standpoint some of the best ideas come from those with little experience in the area being discussed. With so few 3 gun matches and so many shooters, supply low/demand high, customer input/feedback doesn't carry much/any weight as long as the matches fill. I think most here know of at least one club/group that is or was running matches of some type that failed. If a club/organization fails because the customers walk away, then either customer input wasn't taken or acted upon. While I prefer some rules/scoring systems over others, I mainly just want to shoot/compete. All I ask is that rules be posted before the buzzer goes off and dont change before the scores are done. David E. Sorry I butcher the Man in the ring quote, didnt have time to look it up or give credit. Edited January 10, 2012 by Nuke8401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Based on my experience, and folks I am just a East coast shooter, there are at least 3 more important factors in match attendance than rules. These would be location, time of year, number of stages and design, and payback vs entry/travel costs. OK that's at least four. I have never heard of a match which failed because of the match rules but that does not mean we should not try to create a better set of rules/scoring to improve our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike P Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Rules questions/discussions seem so frequent and similar that they rarely amount to much more than pot stirring. Then again pot stirring can be inspired and as such should be encouraged I think. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Rules questions/discussions seem so frequent and similar that they rarely amount to much more than pot stirring. Then again pot stirring can be inspired and as such should be encouraged I think. Carry on. More than that. This match started to form in my pea brain in large part to Trapr (and others) stirring the pot. Edited January 10, 2012 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Charles thats not what I said, or at least meant. what was meant was, before you decide to tell others how to do it, or suggest how, why don't you simply put your own butt into gear and hold your own match, not a local match but one with match sponsors, and prize tables, and such. Then with a little experience under your belt others MAY decide that what you suggest might just have some credibility, and you might even learn that what you suggest has merit on your own or that it doesn't. Trust me, I discovered that lots of my ideas didn't merit suggesting or implementing after a little experimentation, but some of them do, like 4moa targets, painting for every shooter, steel must fall, etc. the ones that didn't pan out are gone and forgotten, and you never heard about them. Way too many shooters with little experience think that they have more experience than they do and try tell people how it should be done, a bit more listening, watching, and learning should take place before speaking. That goes for me as well, at times. Pistol experience is not multigun experience. Too often people try to make things more easy or benefit them more, rather than fair or beneficial for the masses. Its that "ME" mentality that makes life unfair. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmdCtzn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think we're likely to see a fair amount of discussion on here about rules seeing as how this is a discussion board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) How about all those people that keep coming up with "new" ways and rules to improve the current matches, division, etc, just hold their own match Then we can decide if we like the "new" ways of doing things. Rather than try and get others to change what they already have, and works!!!! Think of the number of "new" matches we would have to choose from, think of the numbers of "new" shooters that we would entice to come and play. Trapr, sarcasm mode off now!!!!! Yea change is scary, fear change. (my sarcasm mode no disrespect intended) I don't think there is anything wrong with new ideas being talked about and tried to see what happenes. Red dots in Limited on the rifle seems to have been a good thing. At the last match I hosted I changed limited to only allow pump shotguns and pistols downloaded to 10+1 and it was the most popular division at my match. Small match I know but there is nothing wrong with trying new ideas and listening to the rank and file that shoot the matches. Some ideas may flop and some will work. This sport needs to be evolving and needs to be responsive to the shooters. Pat Edited January 10, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Am I still a "New Guy" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Charles thats not what I said, or at least meant. what was meant was, before you decide to tell others how to do it, or suggest how, why don't you simply put your own butt into gear and hold your own match, not a local match but one with match sponsors, and prize tables, and such. Then with a little experience under your belt others MAY decide that what you suggest might just have some credibility, and you might even learn that what you suggest has merit on your own or that it doesn't. Trust me, I discovered that lots of my ideas didn't merit suggesting or implementing after a little experimentation, but some of them do, like 4moa targets, painting for every shooter, steel must fall, etc. the ones that didn't pan out are gone and forgotten, and you never heard about them. Way too many shooters with little experience think that they have more experience than they do and try tell people how it should be done, a bit more listening, watching, and learning should take place before speaking. That goes for me as well, at times. Pistol experience is not multigun experience. Too often people try to make things more easy or benefit them more, rather than fair or beneficial for the masses. Its that "ME" mentality that makes life unfair. Trapr I left off another important factor and that is who is associated with the match and I believe this may at least in the multigun community have more weight than any other factor. If I know you or Kurt or Crambit is running it or helping or at least attending, I am going to have more faith that it a quality match than anything else I could point to. The more experienced shooters know it The newer shooters who are around for a while will soon figure out that there are sometimes very valid reasons to drive by a match to attend another and more often then not, its not because the one you skip is bad but rather because the other one is soooo much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I can live with almost any rules, so long as I know them going in. What I have the most trouble with is poor match management. This covers: Registration, Stage Design, Officiating, Time management (BIG ONE THIS) and payback. I have run a couple matches, mostly pistol, but also SG and Multi-gun and I have made some screw-ups. Things we thought sounded good on paper, but in reality they didn't work quite as planned. Experience has taught us that a good vigorous discussion BEFORE the match is on the ground goes a long way towards making a good experience after it is built. Some ideas sound really good, but kill the flow or the feel of the match. We have to keep in mind that no matter what we call it, this is a GAME and we keep score on paper (or electronically) but we all go out to dinner after and we all go home. Trying to make it into anything else it where I think some people go astray. Then again, I could be full of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Jim, I have never made a bad judgement!!! softballs work great as close range rifle targets, at least the ones I "tested" did. Just ask Alamoshooter(my guinea pig). But no so much in the match. my original thoughts on this topic were that I"m tired of hearing people complain about so so rule this or that, or so and so equipment requirement at this match isn't the same as that match. If you don't agree with it then don't attend, its not your match don't attempt change simply because you're too lazy to read rules ahead of time, and you got burned or your buddy got burned, or whatever. If you travel to NYC don't ask where you can store your carry pistol while you sight see in the city, you should have known the rules before you got there. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you travel to NYC don't ask where you can store your carry pistol while you sight see in the city, you should have known the rules before you got there. Unless of course you are sponsored by the same firearms manufacturer as the pistol in the LE holsters, then it can just be chalked up to a good lesson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This thread it too hard , can we make it easier ? Brilliant is such a long word ..I had to look twice to make -shore- I spelled it rite. Can we change the thread title to Smart Idea ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This thread it too hard , can we make it easier ? Brilliant is such a long word ..I had to look twice to make -shore sure I spelled it rite right. Can we change the thread title to Smart Idea ? First sentence is a run-on, I fixed the typos for you. Anything for you Jamie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colodrew Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Rules questions/discussions seem so frequent and similar that they rarely amount to much more than pot stirring. Then again pot stirring can be inspired and as such should be encouraged I think. Carry on. More than that. This match started to form in my pea brain in large part to Trapr (and others) stirring the pot. Leave it to the engineer to have 31 pages of rules! Bah ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Rules questions/discussions seem so frequent and similar that they rarely amount to much more than pot stirring. Then again pot stirring can be inspired and as such should be encouraged I think. Carry on. More than that. This match started to form in my pea brain in large part to Trapr (and others) stirring the pot. Leave it to the engineer to have 31 pages of rules! Bah ha ha I'm not sure I would ever want to "write" a rulebook for anything. To many smart gamers out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 mark a rule book would be easy, play nice,... don't scare the RO's. Ex: why is he DQ'd?? he scared me!! How? he pointed the gun at the spectators. good enuf!!! Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree! When I get a back seat driver I usually pull over to the side of the road and let them know they can get out and drive their own car, find another ride or STFU. I don't see why it should be any different here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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