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Schuemann AET 38 Super Barrel ... denting plated bullets?


Whoops!

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Has anyone else experienced this?

Here's the deal, I just got an Infinity open gun in the mail. It's a custom shorty with a ported AET barrel in 38 super. The barrel seems to dent the front of my plated Rainier round nose bullets at 1.23 through 1.26 OAL. It leaves a substantial impression. The accuracy is still good. At 1.26 the impression is substantially deeper than at 1.23. But, at 1.23 it seems to be about the same as 1.24.

At first I thought my 1.26 OAL was too long, but I shrunk it down to far more than I should need to and it is still there. The barrel leaves a visible mark on jacketed bullets, but does not actually dent into them.

Two questions . . .

What's causing this? Do the AET barrels have some sort of progressive lead in to the rifling that goes into what would normally be the unrifled chamber?

Is this the actual reason why some people experience tumbling with plated bullets in an AET barrel? Because there's actually a small chunk missing out of the bullet before it is even fired?

I should mention, my barrel does not tumble the plated bullets and accuracy is excellent. Almost as good as my JHPs, which are basically one hole at 25 yards.

Thanks for any advice.

Edited by Whoops!
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Has anyone else experienced this?

Here's the deal, I just got an Infinity open gun in the mail. It's a custom shorty with a ported AET barrel in 38 super. The barrel seems to dent the front of my plated Rainier round nose bullets at 1.23 through 1.26 OAL. It leaves a substantial impression. The accuracy is still good. At 1.26 the impression is substantially deeper than at 1.23. But, at 1.23 it seems to be about the same as 1.24.

At first I thought my 1.26 OAL was too long, but I shrunk it down to far more than I should need to and it is still there. The barrel leaves a visible mark on jacketed bullets, but does not actually dent into them.

Two questions . . .

What's causing this? Do the AET barrels have some sort of progressive lead in to the rifling that goes into what would normally be the unrifled chamber?

Is this the actual reason why some people experience tumbling with plated bullets in an AET barrel? Because there's actually a small chunk missing out of the bullet before it is even fired?

I should mention, my barrel does not tumble the plated bullets and accuracy is excellent. Almost as good as my JHPs, which are basically one hole at 25 yards.

Thanks for any advice.

a picture would be helpful so we can see exactly what you're talking about.

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Schuemann, the SV had a new barrel and comp assembly fitted

I'll get pictures as soon as I can, my phone's dead.

Edited by Whoops!
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Here's a pic. This particular bullets OAL was 1.24. As stated, the chamber and barrel appear to be good to go, no imperfections can be seen.

My new theory is the dent is being caused by the bullet pushing against the top of the chamber while feeding to straighten itself into the chamber. This is because when I very slowly load the round, no imperfection can be seen. It is confusing to me; however, because the dent definately appears to be caused by a sharp object. At 1.26 OAL it even starts to cut through the plating.

Also, the bright spot is just light reflecting off. The dent is just the small dark spot in the large bright spot.

post-24988-0-40252300-1325917064_thumb.j

Edited by Whoops!
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does this happen to all the bullets? if it happens only occasionally it might not be the chamber but is happening before it gets there. of course, i'm guessing.

there are a couple of places where a bullet comes near a sharp edge during feeding. one is the front of the magazine, and if a round nosedives enough it might actually hit the front of the magazine on its way out. i've seen this happen. another is approaching the chamber and it can contact the edge at the entrance to the chamber and if the nose is high enough it will hit the edge of the hood. i've seen some weird gouges on some of my 45 plated bullets and i have a standard chamber. those are the only places it could have run into a sharp edge.

i doubt that this type of damage is behind tumbling with plated bullets.

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It happens to all of the bullets as long as I rack the slide normally. Looking in the slide, the bullets appear to be feeding straight from the mag to the chamber with very little interaction beside. It happens regardless of the magazine I feed them out of.

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I would take a majic marker and put a line or mark on top of the bullet or case at 12 o'clock in the mag them cycle it and see if it is denting it on the top bottom or side and narrow down the problem to what is causing it. Could help,

Joe

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I've been meaning to try the marker thing, I just have to go buy a marker. Another thing to consider, the gun's not new and has about 7,000 rounds through it. Could the previous owner have shot any kind of ammunition that would potentially cause the chamber to do this?

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I've been meaning to try the marker thing, I just have to go buy a marker. Another thing to consider, the gun's not new and has about 7,000 rounds through it. Could the previous owner have shot any kind of ammunition that would potentially cause the chamber to do this?

no. unless he cracked it!

feel around in the chamber to see if there is something that stands out that could cause this. looking inside the chamber should be enough to detect a sharp edge that produces what you're seeing, but just in case it's visually subtle, try feeling around with some appropriate object to see if you can feel something amiss.

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Guys, I don't know of any gun that the round of ammunition has a straight path into the chamber, with the exception of single shots where the round is placed in the chamber by hand. There may be some, but I am not aware of them or have seen them. Take a look at an AR m-4 ramp. It has small ramps at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock, meaning the round comes in at not only a up and down angle, but also with a left or right angle added in. 1911's come in with mostly a up and down angle and get wedged into the chamber with the slide pushing forward on the round and the wedge action shoving the base of the cartridge up the breachface and under the extractor hook. The nose of the bullet, at about 6 o'clock on the nose itself, hits the barrel or frame ramp and then hits the top side of the bullet as it enters the chamber at about 12 o'clock more on the top side of the bullet. The round may actually turn slightly as the base of the case rim slides under the extractor going up the breachface. As stated previously Plated bullets are softer than jacketed bullets. They will show dents. Plating has also been known to get sheared or scraped off as the bullet passes ports in the barrel of an open gun, if you have barrel ports. Plated bullets have also been shown to not like the high velocities reached with open guns and the firmer crimps sometimes used and will occasionally tumble. They, on the other hand, have proven to be quite useful in minor loads and limited type major rounds and save money over more expensive jacketed bullets.

Get a good strong pair of reading glasses and some good lighting and look over the chamber carefully. If it is smooth and you cannot see any burrs or bumps don't obsess with dents in the bullets. Get some ammo loaded up and go shoot. If the gun is accurate be happy. If you are looking for an excuse to tell the wife that you need a new gun, that's your story and stick to it.

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Guys, I don't know of any gun that the round of ammunition has a straight path into the chamber, with the exception of single shots where the round is placed in the chamber by hand. There may be some, but I am not aware of them or have seen them. Take a look at an AR m-4 ramp. It has small ramps at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock, meaning the round comes in at not only a up and down angle, but also with a left or right angle added in. 1911's come in with mostly a up and down angle and get wedged into the chamber with the slide pushing forward on the round and the wedge action shoving the base of the cartridge up the breachface and under the extractor hook. The nose of the bullet, at about 6 o'clock on the nose itself, hits the barrel or frame ramp and then hits the top side of the bullet as it enters the chamber at about 12 o'clock more on the top side of the bullet. The round may actually turn slightly as the base of the case rim slides under the extractor going up the breachface. As stated previously Plated bullets are softer than jacketed bullets. They will show dents. Plating has also been known to get sheared or scraped off as the bullet passes ports in the barrel of an open gun, if you have barrel ports. Plated bullets have also been shown to not like the high velocities reached with open guns and the firmer crimps sometimes used and will occasionally tumble. They, on the other hand, have proven to be quite useful in minor loads and limited type major rounds and save money over more expensive jacketed bullets.

Get a good strong pair of reading glasses and some good lighting and look over the chamber carefully. If it is smooth and you cannot see any burrs or bumps don't obsess with dents in the bullets. Get some ammo loaded up and go shoot. If the gun is accurate be happy. If you are looking for an excuse to tell the wife that you need a new gun, that's your story and stick to it.

Excellent information from a man who knows his stuff. I might just add from my experience, FORGET plated bullets in open. Open is like driving 4 second dragstesr, they don't run on 87 octane pump gas.

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O.K. J.L. Hardy, I told my wife that you said I need a new open gun. At first she was'nt happy, then she said, "well, if J.L. says so I guess go ahead". Thanks for helping the brother out.

PS. +1 on shoot it. If it's safe, accurate and flat, why search for a problem? Open guns, high velocity and comps are no-nos for plated bullets. I have always followed the "use lead loads for plated bullets" theory. Happy shooting! How DID you get a gun in the mail anyway? ROFL! :roflol:

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I agree that it's probably just denting the bullets as they enter. When I said straight into the chamber I meant, depending on the magazine and slide racking speed, the bullet doesn't impact the feed ramp or exteriors of the barrel. It goes straight into the top of the interior of the chamber then is forced to straighten out by the slide closing on it.

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