Nimitz Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Ok, so after 3 eye surgeries since July I'm finally back to seing 20/20 again & have been cleared by my docter to "do whatever you want". On Jan 14th I'll be shooting my first USPSA match after a 2 day course with Mike Seeklander who will also be coaching all of us students during the match. So today I went to the range to do some basic shooting practice ...draw and fire 2 rounds; reholster, draw & fire 2 rounds; reholster, draw move sideways to a target & fire 2 rounds, etc Attached is the resulting target from today. As you can see I consistently shot mostly A's on the 1st shot & then low, left C's for the 2nd shot. I even switched to head shots & the same thing happened... I know there seems to be a lot more A's then anything else but you can ignore a lot of those as I was sighting in my new optical sight for my M4 carbine before swirching to pistol. So, I'm sure I'm doing some basic thing wrong .... BTW I shoot a production Glock 34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Ok, so after 3 eye surgeries since July I'm finally back to seing 20/20 again & have been cleared by my docter to "do whatever you want". On Jan 14th I'll be shooting my first USPSA match after a 2 day course with Mike Seeklander who will also be coaching all of us students during the match. So today I went to the range to do some basic shooting practice ...draw and fire 2 rounds; reholster, draw & fire 2 rounds; reholster, draw move sideways to a target & fire 2 rounds, etc Attached is the resulting target from today. As you can see I consistently shot mostly A's on the 1st shot & then low, left C's for the 2nd shot. I even switched to head shots & the same thing happened... I know there seem to be a lot more A's then anything erlse but you can ignore those as I was sighting in my new optical sight for my M4 carbine before swirching to pistol. So, I'm sure I'm doing some basic thing wrong .... BTW I shoot a Glock 34 (those 2 shots at teh bottom of the target were on purpose ... I decided to shoot at a clear section of the target & again, my first shot was were I was aiming (bottom center line of the target & then the 2nd shot was again low left ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Well, I don't see any target attached but from the sound of it it's classic faulty trigger manipulation. Low left is generally trigger jerk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Two things: First, your second shot being low and left, I would think you are fighting the recoil of the gun, forcing it back down, instead of letting it drop back on it's own after the shot (I.E. shooting faster than you can see). The bullet will hit exactly where it is aimed, so.....I would assume that you were firing as fast as you thought you could? If so, slow down, re-acquire the sight picture after EVERY shot, and put them in the A zone. A's score more points, so being a .10th of a second slower, and making sure you get the A zone hit is better than gaining that 10th of a second, and giving up the points (especially in Production, as it scores minor)...Don't fight the gun..... Second: It's the wrong target! Edited January 6, 2012 by GrumpyOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 To see if you are "anticipating the recoil", involuntarily pushing the gun down and left to try and compensate the recoil of the shot, load several dummy rounds. No powder or primers. Have a friend load your magazines with live rounds and a few dummies. Do your draw and two shot drills. If you are anticipating the recoil you will easily be able to see it when you pull the trigger on a dummy. You will push the gun down and left with no round fired. It's an eye opener! Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Mods, he has another thread with the target jpg attached.... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=143207&view=findpost&p=1608639&hl=&fromsearch=1 Edited January 6, 2012 by GrumpyOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Second: It's the wrong target! There's your culprit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Try the dot torture drill - it was listed here last winter, and it's great for this problem. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 thx, I'll make up some of the targets for the dot torture drill & start adding them to my practice sessions ,it should be a real eye opener ... I just picked up a target out of the bin that didn't have any holes showing & stuck it out in the bay. Now that I look at it is does say "Official IDPA target" on the bottom ... no wonder I was having so much trouble Hmmmm .... I also don't recall ever seeing any of the USPSA targets in any of the bins in our action area & we hold both USPSA & IDPA matches ... maybe people only throw away the IDPA targets after matches ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mda Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Once sight pictue two tigge pulls. You are not seeing the sight pictue for the second shot just yanking the trigger. MDA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidnal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 +1 SEE the sight before the second trigger pull Once sight pictue two tigge pulls. You are not seeing the sight pictue for the second shot just yanking the trigger. MDA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 yeah, that all makes sense. As I think back on it I can recall not really having any sight picture, certainly not seeing the front sight clearly, in an effort to get the shot off 'quickly'. I'll try the dummy round drill as well but I'm sure that's what's going on ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 ok, so I was back at the range again today & I made up a dot drill target. However, after attempting the first drill of the set (draw & fire 6 rounds with no time limit) it was obvious there was no point to doing the other drills just yet so I just tried repeating the first drill but what you see is all that I could manage. The grouping is somewhat ok but I can't seem to manage to put the rounds in the center of the circle even though I was just taking my time & trying to line up each shot individually. I assume I have some kind of basic sighting issue which has nothing to do with action pistol techniques ... BTW, I put up an IDPA target & had no trouble hitting all As by simply drawing & then firing off 10 rounds with no attempt at any speed but the 3" circle wasn't even close ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) ok, so I was back at the range again today & I made up a dot drill target. However, after attempting the first drill of the set (draw & fire 6 rounds with no time limit) it was obvious there was no point to doing the other drills just yet so I just tried repeating the first drill but what you see is all that I could manage. The grouping is somewhat ok but I can't seem to manage to put the rounds in the center of the circle even though I was just taking my time & trying to line up each shot individually. I assume I have some kind of basic sighting issue which has nothing to do with action pistol techniques ... BTW, I put up an IDPA target & had no trouble hitting all As by simply drawing & then firing off 10 rounds with no attempt at any speed but the 3" circle wasn't even close ... At what distance were you shooting? Might try drifting your rear sight over a tad, but other than that, I'd say you were fine....unless those shots were taken at say, 3 yards....Put the pistol on a rest and see what you get....if it's still shooting left, drift the sites... and if you want to raise those hits a bit, file the front site down a bit...or get a shorter one.... Edited January 7, 2012 by GrumpyOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANDERSEN Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 When this happens to me - I use a dummy rounds - close my eyes load the magazine not knowing where in the stack the dummy(s) are. Usually it is a trigger jerk / anticipating the recoil. I tend to concentrate more on the first shot; not so much on the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Low left is a trigger jerk/flinch issue. Completely shooter related (don't cop out and look for an equipment fix). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 well I was hoping that was the issue ... I hate trying to blame equipment for things unless the evidence is overwhelming. It would be easy to just blame my sights but they are a set of Sevigney Competition Sights which were installed by a Glock Armorer ... BTW the top 2 & bottom left were at 7 yds & the bottom right was at 10 yds ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 any other drills besides the random dummy rounds to work on correcting this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 any other drills besides the random dummy rounds to work on correcting this problem? Nimitz, the random dummy round technique won't "correct" the problem, only diagnose it ... The dot torture will allow you to correct the problem - keep firing, slower and slower, closer and closer, until you are putting all the shots into the circle. (You should make sure your sights are tuned in or you'll never get this done - very slow fire over a rest). Once you can put all the shots at 7 yds into the circle, you can speed up the shots... When you're happy with the speed, you can increase the distance, if you'd like. It's all about your trigger control (and mine ). You have to prep the trigger so sights don't move when shot goes off (technique). When we (both of us) can fire rapidly without disturbing the sight picture with a "yank", we'll be much better shooters:) Don't forget, the A zone of a USPSA target is only 5.5 inches wide - so missing a 3" dot at 7 yds is like missing the A zone at 14 yards, which is a very common distance in competition. And missing the C zone at 21 yards. Until you can consistently and quickly hit those dots, NOTHING else matters - speed won't help, nothing - have to be able to hit the damn target, quickly - that's The Game. Good luck (to both of us), Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Look up my "flinch breaker 101". Figure out the grip and stance that allows you to manage the recoil with the support hand...and isolate the strong hand so that it just actuates the trigger smoothly. You are gripping the gun harder with the strong hand at the momnet you work the trigger. Instead, look to approach that so that your support hand is taking over the heavy work. I also like the dryfire drill where you balance the dime on the front sight and work the trigger. All the info is around here. Hit the search page and soak it all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNerd Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Do you have a .22? Lately I'll go to the Range and burn through 200-300 rounds of .22 Working on tight group shooting using SMALL targets. It raises my expectations for my accuracy. ALWAYS improves my major caliber shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 thx guys ... Hi-Power Jack & Flex Money: I'll start incorporating your suggestions & find the refs you mention. FWIW ... I only recntly learned the "thumb over thumb grip" that competiton shooters use (remember, I'm very new to competitive shooting) so I have no doubt that I have grip issues. Can you all recommend any good DVDs that go through the basics to get a good foundation for competitive shooting? Books like Seeklander's are good but they assume you have mastered all the basics & have already ben shooting competitively which I have not ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I don't know many that use a thumb over thumb, actually. Some of the old-timers still do (many of them bowling pin shooters). Many/most ten to point both thumbs at the target, keeping them off the frame. I don't really use my thumbs for anything, really. They just float. I liked Matt Burkett's DVD's. I don't know that he is making/selling them still (but I do see them pop up in the classifieds). Check out his shooting tips on Saul's sight: http://www.doublealpha.biz/courses-tips/matts-tips/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msshooter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My theory is that you need to relax your strong hand. You only need enough "grip to hold the pistol." When you squeeze your lower 3 fingers gripping harder you pull down and left on the muzzle. Coming from a local gm and instructor you need 60% of your grip in your weak hand, 30% in your strong hand and the other 10% is in your chest "pecks", pushing the heels of your palms together to create a cradle for your gun to recoil into. Also practice your trigger finger pulling straight back and keeping the rest of your hand idle while it moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My guess is that you have the trigger finger resting on/along side of the frame. Pulling the trigger will push the pistol left. You should get the entire trigger finger off the frame with the middle knuckle in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.53c483221c1b60d84bce93d42c5def5a.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.