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M&P Pro 9 bad groups


gotigers

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I've had my M&P Pro 9 since 09-2010. I've used it for 3 gun, about 10-12 matches plus practice. Maybe 1500 rounds. It has a dawson adjustable sight set. Otherwise all factory.

Lately i have struggled with plates out past 20 yards and groups on paper unsupported at 15 yards are 6-8 inches, supported about 4-6 inches.

I have read that some owners have complained about the recoil springs. When i first bought it, the groups were better, just very low. I fixed the low shooting with the dawson sights. I have noticed that my brass is very black. I don't notice others being so black.

How can i determine if the recoil spring is worn out?

Any other ideas for the group opening up?

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Yeah, i've tried different ammo. I have mostly shot the fed bulk since i got the M&P. The groups have opened up with the fed bulk.

I will try some better ammo. I will stay away from the Rem UMC. My M&P has FTEs and fails to hold open on empty occasionally when shooting Rem UMC.

In the meantime, any other ideas?

Edited by gotigers
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Yeah, i've tried different ammo. I have mostly shot the fed bulk since i got the M&P. The groups have opened up with the fed bulk.

I will try some better ammo. I will stay away from the Rem UMC. My M&P has FTEs and fails to hold open on empty occasionally when shooting Rem UMC.

In the meantime, any other ideas?

If it has FTEs I would call Smith. They will probably send you a shipping label to send it back but they will fix it for free.

Turn around time is pretty fast.

Edited by sniperfrog
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I believe the accuracy will degrade before the pistol stops functioning properly. The M&P suffers from early unlocking based on barrel lug geometry. The recoil spring strength will affect how long it stays in battery. I changed my recoil spring at 3500 rds when I noticed vertically displaced fliers from a good shot call. The problem went away and I was back to shooting round groups.

I also have a KKM barrel and that cut the group size in half from new. The factory barrel really strung things out vertically, I shot that barrel for around a thousand rounds before switching to the KKM.

I hope Smith fixes the accuracy problems soon, because I want another one.....

Ps. How many dry fire slide racks do you have on it? That would add to the 1500 rds. If it is not that many, your spring should not be worn out, and I would send it back to Smith.

Edited by SPR1
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I have a m&p pro 5" that has about 10,000 rounds thru it. I have also noticed my groups have really opened up. Im shooting the same load from day one. My gun went from shooting 3" groups to 6" or 8". I thought about trying a KKM barrel, but after reading mixed reviews, I have not figured out what to try. I switched to M&P from a GLOCK. I never really shot a GLOCK very well. The other day I took my glock out to the range and I was hitting better with it. I hate to switch back, because the M&P feels so much better in my hand. Id like to know what you guys think.

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Back on topic:

I took my M&P out today. I shot 3 different common bulk ammo, all 115gr FMJ; Winchester white box, Remington UMC and my regular walmart bulk Federal.

I shot each group with support under my wrist, not under the barrel.

I shot several groups of each totaling about 70 rounds for each manufacturer. The federal groups were between 5-7 inches, the Remington were between 4-5 inches and Winchester white box was the best at 3-4 inches.

It was very windy, 20 mph + gusts. Even in a pistol bay with berms on 3 sides the wind was moving my targes a little. That plus my shooting fundementals were very bad at the start. As i shot, my groups got better. I think the gun is fine. I just need to practice more regular and shoot better ammo in matches.

thanks for talking me off the ledge. lol.

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Try some 147gr and see what happens. I had e mailed Julie Golob about the M&P pro when I was trying to decide whether to buy it or not. she advised the 147gr loads seemed to work best for her

There are a bunch of threads about 147s in a 9mm Pro, and if I remember correctly, they have to be run a little on the fast side to be accurate.

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I had this issue with my 9L... after a month or two of scratching my head and burning up a shit load of ammo.... a buddy recommended checking the crown of the barrel. Seems somehow I got a nick in the leading edge of the crown. I didn't think it would make a difference in a handgun, but I had it re-crowned by my gunsmith anyway. Oh boy was i wrong... just one little nick removed i went from 5-6 inch groups at 20 down to 2/2.5... May not be your problem... but it cant hurt to look at it... Just don't look down it!

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I had this issue with my 9L and S&W sent me a new barrel which was different than the original one. It tightened up the groups to an acceptable level. Apex is working with Bar-Sto to produce two barrels which should be out pretty soon that will be semi-drop in and custom fit and not just reproduced from factory specs. Check there website.

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Back on topic:

I took my M&P out today. I shot 3 different common bulk ammo, all 115gr FMJ; Winchester white box, Remington UMC and my regular walmart bulk Federal.

I shot each group with support under my wrist, not under the barrel.

I shot several groups of each totaling about 70 rounds for each manufacturer. The federal groups were between 5-7 inches, the Remington were between 4-5 inches and Winchester white box was the best at 3-4 inches.

It was very windy, 20 mph + gusts. Even in a pistol bay with berms on 3 sides the wind was moving my targes a little. That plus my shooting fundementals were very bad at the start. As i shot, my groups got better. I think the gun is fine. I just need to practice more regular and shoot better ammo in matches.

thanks for talking me off the ledge. lol.

Yep. Don't expect much better than that with your M&P. Moving from an STI 1911 it was frustrating to me. But I've tweaked my reloads and done everything else possible but still have about 3-4" groups at 25 yards. I even changed the stock barrel to a Storm Lake barrel this Fall. Improved a bit, but not enormously. The Storm Lake barrel is, however, MUCH more picky about OAL. It won't feed properly anything over 1.110. And you have to be very careful to only fire loads that have been carefully case guaged or you will get a death jam FTE.

JJM

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Yep. Don't expect much better than that with your M&P. Moving from an STI 1911 it was frustrating to me. But I've tweaked my reloads and done everything else possible but still have about 3-4" groups at 25 yards. I even changed the stock barrel to a Storm Lake barrel this Fall. Improved a bit, but not enormously. The Storm Lake barrel is, however, MUCH more picky about OAL. It won't feed properly anything over 1.110. And you have to be very careful to only fire loads that have been carefully case guaged or you will get a death jam FTE.

JJM

You guys have me nervous! My M&P pro should be here any day now and after threads like this, I hesitate to veer away from my Glock...

How is 3-4" groups at 25 yards acceptable?

Half of the advantage I have is being able to hit those far shots quickly to save the steps...

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Take a look at this thread and the link....might help out a bit.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114015&view=findpost&p=1293607

I've seen this thread and followed the advice. I never rest my M&P directly on the dust cover. I only support my wrists when I shoot groups. Even so, I still can't get anything better than 3-4 inch groups, even with my Storm Lake barrel. I'm not a new shooter. I can get 1.5 inch groups with both of my STI 1911s.

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Take a look at this thread and the link....might help out a bit.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114015&view=findpost&p=1293607

I've seen this thread and followed the advice. I never rest my M&P directly on the dust cover. I only support my wrists when I shoot groups. Even so, I still can't get anything better than 3-4 inch groups, even with my Storm Lake barrel. I'm not a new shooter. I can get 1.5 inch groups with both of my STI 1911s.

The dust cover part wasn't the important part. Raising the grip pressure to vice level is what often proves to make all the difference. You simply can't shoot them with the same technique as a 1911, and get the same results. I've found the same to be true with my Glocks as well....clamp down on the grip, and the groups shrink 50%.

With that said, I found a half dozen bullets/loads (Zero 147gr FMJ, MG 130GR FMJ, Precision Delta 147gr FMJ-TC, Zero 125gr JHP, WWB 115gr, Win Ranger 124gr FMJ, and a couple others) that wouldn't do better than 3-4" out of either the stock or SL barrels. Only MG 147gr CMJ and Zero 147gr JHPs would go sub-2" in mine. The Zero 147gr JHPs were 1.25" @25yds, and the Zero 147gr FMJs were 8"+, so it's not simply a bullet weight issue. Same guy, same weight bullet, same powder, etc, etc...weird, but true.

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Take a look at this thread and the link....might help out a bit.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114015&view=findpost&p=1293607

I've seen this thread and followed the advice. I never rest my M&P directly on the dust cover. I only support my wrists when I shoot groups. Even so, I still can't get anything better than 3-4 inch groups, even with my Storm Lake barrel. I'm not a new shooter. I can get 1.5 inch groups with both of my STI 1911s.

The dust cover part wasn't the important part. Raising the grip pressure to vice level is what often proves to make all the difference. You simply can't shoot them with the same technique as a 1911, and get the same results. I've found the same to be true with my Glocks as well....clamp down on the grip, and the groups shrink 50%.

With that said, I found a half dozen bullets/loads (Zero 147gr FMJ, MG 130GR FMJ, Precision Delta 147gr FMJ-TC, Zero 125gr JHP, WWB 115gr, Win Ranger 124gr FMJ, and a couple others) that wouldn't do better than 3-4" out of either the stock or SL barrels. Only MG 147gr CMJ and Zero 147gr JHPs would go sub-2" in mine. The Zero 147gr JHPs were 1.25" @25yds, and the Zero 147gr FMJs were 8"+, so it's not simply a bullet weight issue. Same guy, same weight bullet, same powder, etc, etc...weird, but true.

Okay. But not resting the gun on the dust cover does make a huge difference in the groups with an M&P. As for the vice grip, well, that's just one more discouraging thing. I don't shoot like that normally. I want a gun that will give me good groups with the grip I used to shoot matches. My 1911 will do that. My M&P will not. That's the rub, right?

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Take a look at this thread and the link....might help out a bit.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114015&view=findpost&p=1293607

I've seen this thread and followed the advice. I never rest my M&P directly on the dust cover. I only support my wrists when I shoot groups. Even so, I still can't get anything better than 3-4 inch groups, even with my Storm Lake barrel. I'm not a new shooter. I can get 1.5 inch groups with both of my STI 1911s.

The dust cover part wasn't the important part. Raising the grip pressure to vice level is what often proves to make all the difference. You simply can't shoot them with the same technique as a 1911, and get the same results. I've found the same to be true with my Glocks as well....clamp down on the grip, and the groups shrink 50%.

With that said, I found a half dozen bullets/loads (Zero 147gr FMJ, MG 130GR FMJ, Precision Delta 147gr FMJ-TC, Zero 125gr JHP, WWB 115gr, Win Ranger 124gr FMJ, and a couple others) that wouldn't do better than 3-4" out of either the stock or SL barrels. Only MG 147gr CMJ and Zero 147gr JHPs would go sub-2" in mine. The Zero 147gr JHPs were 1.25" @25yds, and the Zero 147gr FMJs were 8"+, so it's not simply a bullet weight issue. Same guy, same weight bullet, same powder, etc, etc...weird, but true.

Okay. But not resting the gun on the dust cover does make a huge difference in the groups with an M&P. As for the vice grip, well, that's just one more discouraging thing. I don't shoot like that normally. I want a gun that will give me good groups with the grip I used to shoot matches. My 1911 will do that. My M&P will not. That's the rub, right?

To be honest, I haven't put much time/effort into trying to figure out the change(s) with the dust cover making contact, but I'm sure it has some influence on the results, at least some of the time (it doesn't seem to be consistent for every shooter/grip/gun combo) from what little I've seen).

I may have worded it poorly in the linked thread above, but what I found was that if I shot with a seriously firm grip from the bench, I got the best groups possible...in that scenario. Then, if I shot standing freestyle (normal grip), and did everything right, the point of impact would be the same, and the groups didn't open up obviously except on shots I called as being less than perfect. It's just a lot harder to get the perfect shots off freestyle (for me)! Enough times to know it wasn't luck, I shot a good group off the bench, then put a shot into the exact same group freestyle.

That's about as sure as I can be to knowing it's a non-factor for me, my technique, my gun, and my ammo...when I do my part, I'm capable of hitting something 2" or a bit less, at 25yds. I get similar results from my 1911s and 2011s, so I can't really complain much. R,

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Try a heavier bullet first.

If you're having early unlocking issues, the groups will be stringing vertically. You should also be able to feel something weird going on during recoil. It's also reported that M&P early unlock doesn't show up until past 15 yards.

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I believe the accuracy will degrade before the pistol stops functioning properly. The M&P suffers from early unlocking based on barrel lug geometry. The recoil spring strength will affect how long it stays in battery. I changed my recoil spring at 3500 rds when I noticed vertically displaced fliers from a good shot call. The problem went away and I was back to shooting round groups.

I also have a KKM barrel and that cut the group size in half from new. The factory barrel really strung things out vertically, I shot that barrel for around a thousand rounds before switching to the KKM.

I hope Smith fixes the accuracy problems soon, because I want another one.....

Ps. How many dry fire slide racks do you have on it? That would add to the 1500 rds. If it is not that many, your spring should not be worn out, and I would send it back to Smith.

Did you just replace the recoil spring with another factory spring or go with something else?

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