Skydiver Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Open, 9mm for major, Limited 10mm for major. Open 170mm mags, Limited 140mm mags. Open allows comps and and Optics, Limited does not. That's my understanding. If the matches you go to does low light stages, the other difference is: Open allows flashlights, but Limited does not. Edited January 14, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 For those who like SIG's: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby hated Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ha i can see my area director getting all riled up over something like this. "NO! the 500 rule is stupid! it makes no sense! dont talk to me about it." ha ha gotta love endersby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40S&W Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I have a pin gun barrel with comp, my thought was to remove the comp and replace it with a blank comp (no gas release ports) and mount the front sight on the blank comp. Is USPSA going to consider the blank comp as a weight and make it illegal? Same as a sight tracker except it will be 6". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLovesJammie Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm new to the game, but something I would rather see is getting rid of L-10 and making it L-20 with no magazine length limit. That way current S_I guys keep their high capacity and guys with CZ's, Beretta's, and Sig's get a more fair playing field. I shoot a CZ75 with extended mag bases and have 15+1 rounds at 140mm. For a 32 round course of fire, I have to reload 3 times, whereas a S_I guy only has to reload twice. To play competitively in Limited wouldn't cost that much more than Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm new to the game, but something I would rather see is getting rid of L-10 and making it L-20 with no magazine length limit. That way current S_I guys keep their high capacity and guys with CZ's, Beretta's, and Sig's get a more fair playing field. I shoot a CZ75 with extended mag bases and have 15+1 rounds at 140mm. For a 32 round course of fire, I have to reload 3 times, whereas a S_I guy only has to reload twice. To play competitively in Limited wouldn't cost that much more than Production. So how is that better than L10 where you have all the same benefits, no extended mags required, lots of guns can play, or for that matter, how is it that different than Limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesLovesJammie Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm new to the game, but something I would rather see is getting rid of L-10 and making it L-20 with no magazine length limit. That way current S_I guys keep their high capacity and guys with CZ's, Beretta's, and Sig's get a more fair playing field. I shoot a CZ75 with extended mag bases and have 15+1 rounds at 140mm. For a 32 round course of fire, I have to reload 3 times, whereas a S_I guy only has to reload twice. To play competitively in Limited wouldn't cost that much more than Production. So how is that better than L10 where you have all the same benefits, no extended mags required, lots of guns can play, or for that matter, how is it that different than Limited? I reread how I typed my post, and what I should have said is that I think Limited should be a round limit cap instead of a length cap. L-10 doesn't need to go anywhere...but if I was personally going to limit myself to 10 rounds I would shoot Production. Wasn't the original purpose of the length limit to ACT as a capacity limit? Why not just give it a physical round count number and forget the length limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Now that you have a match under your belt, go take the RO course and then tell me if you think you can count rounds to 20 or 21 (you have to do both) while keeping track of safety, foot faults, etc. Stage design aside, going over 11 becomes an issue for most people in a dynamic match atmosphere. Not bashing, just saying you will figure it out after a few matches as an RO. Limited and Open are the two divisions that are the easist to figure out, regulate and RO. They work! IMHO, no reason to tinker with them. Up until a few months ago, all I had really shot was Limited. I ran a few matches Lim10 just to work on reloads on the clock. Now I am tackling Production, SS and Revolver and more than anything, it has convinced me that Limited is almost perfect the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I don't understand why Limited rules need to be changed, unless it is to make it more in line with IPSC rules. Creating another class of super expensive guns is not really a way to grow the sport. The guns in Limited are already, "super expensive". Except when Vogel or Sevigny come in and beat everyone with a $500.00 gun. I have played with Jessie Harrison-Abbate-Harrison soon to be Duff's Glocks. They were no $500 guns. WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I don't understand why Limited rules need to be changed, unless it is to make it more in line with IPSC rules. Creating another class of super expensive guns is not really a way to grow the sport. The guns in Limited are already, "super expensive". Except when Vogel or Sevigny come in and beat everyone with a $500.00 gun. I have played with Jessie Harrison-Abbate-Harrison soon to be Duff's Glocks. They were no $500 guns. WG Didn't say anything about Jessie's guns, but I have shot enough with them and handled both Sevigny and Vogel's guns. I could very easily duplicate either of their guns for $500.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What's the difference between a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a 9 x 19 mm case and a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a .38 super comp case? A load I might add is awful similar to a .357 Magnum. A round which has a fairly enviable record for putting bad guys down. I'm not suggesting 9 major should be allowed in Limited, but it certainly qualifies as Power in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What's the difference between a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a 9 x 19 mm case and a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a .38 super comp case? A load I might add is awful similar to a .357 Magnum. A round which has a fairly enviable record for putting bad guys down. I'm not suggesting 9 major should be allowed in Limited, but it certainly qualifies as Power in my book. Just don't like it. Perhaps my opinion is not logical but I think 9mm is minor. Lots of people have been put down with rimfire rounds, but that does not make it a powerful round. Not sure that is how to determine power. Plus there is a difference between similar to and the same thing as. Roseanne Barr is similar to a woman but not the same thing. I don't think the determining factor for 9mm major should be if it means a lot of existing guns are obsolete. I think it should be is 9mm major a legitimae caliber that is "powerful" so as to stay true to our founding principles. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that 9mm is not a powerful round. Like I said before Limited is perfect or nearly perfect leave it alone. If the BOD would measure twice and cut once I think it would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 <distilled>... my opinion is not logical... </distilled> Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 <distilled>... my opinion is not logical... </distilled> Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Some big deletions here. More of a manipulation than a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What's the difference between a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a 9 x 19 mm case and a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a .38 super comp case? A load I might add is awful similar to a .357 Magnum. A round which has a fairly enviable record for putting bad guys down. I'm not suggesting 9 major should be allowed in Limited, but it certainly qualifies as Power in my book. Just don't like it. Perhaps my opinion is not logical but I think 9mm is minor. Lots of people have been put down with rimfire rounds, but that does not make it a powerful round. Not sure that is how to determine power. Plus there is a difference between similar to and the same thing as. Roseanne Barr is similar to a woman but not the same thing. I don't think the determining factor for 9mm major should be if it means a lot of existing guns are obsolete. I think it should be is 9mm major a legitimae caliber that is "powerful" so as to stay true to our founding principles. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that 9mm is not a powerful round. Like I said before Limited is perfect or nearly perfect leave it alone. If the BOD would measure twice and cut once I think it would be a good thing. So it's an emotional thing about the relative length of the case? Again, if it's virtually the same diameter projectile with the same mass going the same speed what is the difference, other than you are programmed to automatically not like 9mm? Don't get me wrong, I think .40 should be the floor for major in Limited, but I think you might need to revisit your opinion on 9mm major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Why not get rid of Major power factor all together? Everything scored minor, put more focus on accuracy and speed, to hell with power!!!! 9mm Limited guns with barrel weightes and 25+ round mags would be fun as sh*t!!! So while we are at getting rid of Power, then we can get rid of Practical too...... Or we leave it alone, let Open be the division that it is now, the everything goes division Leave .40s&w as the minimum for Major in Limited, Single Stack, L10 because as soon as you change it for Limited, then you might as well change it for SS and L10 Edited February 6, 2012 by JakeMartens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 <distilled>... my opinion is not logical... </distilled> Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Some big deletions here. More of a manipulation than a quote. Not really. You've basically stated you're not open to persuasion. Fine. I'm glad you're not in charge. Leave Open alone. It's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 <distilled>... my opinion is not logical... </distilled> Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Some big deletions here. More of a manipulation than a quote. Not really. You've basically stated you're not open to persuasion. Fine. I'm glad you're not in charge. Leave Open alone. It's working. Not saying anything about Open. I don't agree with it but I don't care to see a change. Leave Limited alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What's the difference between a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a 9 x 19 mm case and a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a .38 super comp case? A load I might add is awful similar to a .357 Magnum. A round which has a fairly enviable record for putting bad guys down. I'm not suggesting 9 major should be allowed in Limited, but it certainly qualifies as Power in my book. Just don't like it. Perhaps my opinion is not logical but I think 9mm is minor. Lots of people have been put down with rimfire rounds, but that does not make it a powerful round. Not sure that is how to determine power. Plus there is a difference between similar to and the same thing as. Roseanne Barr is similar to a woman but not the same thing. I don't think the determining factor for 9mm major should be if it means a lot of existing guns are obsolete. I think it should be is 9mm major a legitimae caliber that is "powerful" so as to stay true to our founding principles. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that 9mm is not a powerful round. Like I said before Limited is perfect or nearly perfect leave it alone. If the BOD would measure twice and cut once I think it would be a good thing. So it's an emotional thing about the relative length of the case? Again, if it's virtually the same diameter projectile with the same mass going the same speed what is the difference, other than you are programmed to automatically not like 9mm? Don't get me wrong, I think .40 should be the floor for major in Limited, but I think you might need to revisit your opinion on 9mm major. It is not the same mass. It is not the same diameter. Close is not the same. Don't care to change Open. I don't agree that it should be major. As pointed out I am not in charge so I am not a threat. I don't like Dodge trucks, DH's in baseball, pocket pistols, 9mm Major or dry climates. Edited February 7, 2012 by Coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What's the difference between a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a 9 x 19 mm case and a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a .38 super comp case? A load I might add is awful similar to a .357 Magnum. A round which has a fairly enviable record for putting bad guys down. I'm not suggesting 9 major should be allowed in Limited, but it certainly qualifies as Power in my book. Just don't like it. Perhaps my opinion is not logical but I think 9mm is minor. Lots of people have been put down with rimfire rounds, but that does not make it a powerful round. Not sure that is how to determine power. Plus there is a difference between similar to and the same thing as. Roseanne Barr is similar to a woman but not the same thing. I don't think the determining factor for 9mm major should be if it means a lot of existing guns are obsolete. I think it should be is 9mm major a legitimae caliber that is "powerful" so as to stay true to our founding principles. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that 9mm is not a powerful round. Like I said before Limited is perfect or nearly perfect leave it alone. If the BOD would measure twice and cut once I think it would be a good thing. So it's an emotional thing about the relative length of the case? Again, if it's virtually the same diameter projectile with the same mass going the same speed what is the difference, other than you are programmed to automatically not like 9mm? Don't get me wrong, I think .40 should be the floor for major in Limited, but I think you might need to revisit your opinion on 9mm major. It is not the same mass. It is not the same diameter. Close is not the same. Don't care to change Open. I don't agree that it should be major. As pointed out I am not in charge so I am not a threat. I don't like Dodge trucks, DH's in baseball, pocket pistols, 9mm Major or dry climates. you forgot onions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I am not in favor of 9mm major in Open. I think it is does not go with the principles of DVC. That being said I don't play in Open so I don't really care and I am not wanting to control what other people do. I am totally against 9mm Major in Limited. That is not power in my book. Limited is perfect right where it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What's the difference between a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a 9 x 19 mm case and a 9mm 124 grain bullet going 1400 feet per second out of a .38 super comp case? A load I might add is awful similar to a .357 Magnum. A round which has a fairly enviable record for putting bad guys down. I'm not suggesting 9 major should be allowed in Limited, but it certainly qualifies as Power in my book. Just don't like it. Perhaps my opinion is not logical but I think 9mm is minor. Lots of people have been put down with rimfire rounds, but that does not make it a powerful round. Not sure that is how to determine power. Plus there is a difference between similar to and the same thing as. Roseanne Barr is similar to a woman but not the same thing. I don't think the determining factor for 9mm major should be if it means a lot of existing guns are obsolete. I think it should be is 9mm major a legitimae caliber that is "powerful" so as to stay true to our founding principles. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that 9mm is not a powerful round. Like I said before Limited is perfect or nearly perfect leave it alone. If the BOD would measure twice and cut once I think it would be a good thing. So it's an emotional thing about the relative length of the case? Again, if it's virtually the same diameter projectile with the same mass going the same speed what is the difference, other than you are programmed to automatically not like 9mm? Don't get me wrong, I think .40 should be the floor for major in Limited, but I think you might need to revisit your opinion on 9mm major. It is not the same mass. It is not the same diameter. Close is not the same. Don't care to change Open. I don't agree that it should be major. As pointed out I am not in charge so I am not a threat. I don't like Dodge trucks, DH's in baseball, pocket pistols, 9mm Major or dry climates. Sounds like 9mm major might not be the issue after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Coming soon to a match near you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What does that slide say? John Holmes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Bassman Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Good Lord, that's beautiful. Edited February 19, 2012 by 59Bassman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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