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People paying you for reloaded ammo is illegal.


XxMerlinxX

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As it was explained to me, people cannot buy reloaded ammunition from me because that would break some sort of law on manufacturing ammo for commercial purposes without a license. My question is this, could someone buy the components, give them to me, and I would assemble them, would that make it legal?

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As it was explained to me, people cannot buy reloaded ammunition from me because that would break some sort of law on manufacturing ammo for commercial purposes without a license. My question is this, could someone buy the components, give them to me, and I would assemble them, would that make it legal?

Without going into legal-eze it all boils down to one word "liability." Even if they bought all the components, you as the "assembler" are liable if for some reason it "malfunctions."

Past that take a look at the different types of Federal Firearms License's available. There is a reason that several of them are specific to manufacture of ammunition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

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I have asked this question of my FFL friends and they said even just sellin projectiles that I cast requires an FFL. I have found a compromise in that if anyone I know wants to load on my equipment with my "oversight" I allow it if I am there loading on another machine as long as it is a caliber I already load and they supply all the components. Sounds kinda restrictive but in the end it is their ammo made with their components and they are the one cranking the handle. I merely make it know I accept donations for wear and tear/maintenance on my machines. I wish I could help people out more but it not worth the risk, not to mention if I did give someone ammo and something happened I would feel terrible.

Lee

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As it was explained to me, people cannot buy reloaded ammunition from me because that would break some sort of law on manufacturing ammo for commercial purposes without a license. My question is this, could someone buy the components, give them to me, and I would assemble them, would that make it legal?

I THINK if you will charge them, illegal. Good call on the liability. If (knock on wood) blow out happens and it caused harm, damage and or death, who is responsible? other than liability, other question is.. is it worth it?

Since they are buying all the components, just teach them how to do it=)

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As another poster said, I also invite people over to use my press with supervision. Teaching someone how to use a pre-set Dillon without teaching them what is actually happening is a 30 second explaination. I still keep an eye on them though.

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I'm in the R&D phase of an ammo biz and found this out on day 1. The only way you can produce ammunition legally is to do it yourself using components you purchased for your own use. However, as some have pointed out, there appears to be nothing in the law that precludes you from being in the "reloading equipment rental business" so long as your "customers" bring their own components. If anyone finds out you're loading ammunition in any other way they'll come down on you like a box of hammers. Not worth the liability or jail time.

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As it was explained to me, people cannot buy reloaded ammunition from me because that would break some sort of law on manufacturing ammo for commercial purposes without a license. My question is this, could someone buy the components, give them to me, and I would assemble them, would that make it legal?

The answer is 'NO', not without a Class 6 FFL. Having said this I will add that obtaining a Class 6 FFL is not only easy but also very inexpensive.

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Every time someone has found out that I reload my own ammunition, I always get the question if i will reload for them. I have always given the same response which is, If they buy all the components they are more than welcome to come hang out and use my press.

No one has ever taken me up on it. I'm assuming because most of my friends are lazy, or they just don't like me that much.

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Hey folks..... B)

Don't forget the liability insurance....and the boxes, and labels, and quality control....and the spare parts.... :sick:

If you have any questions just PM me...been there. am there now... :ph34r:

It is not all sunshine and roses.

Quality in, Quality out....

Regards,

DougC

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What are the legalities, if any, for those guys who are converting bulk .223/5.56 brass into .300 Blackout brass?

As far as the excise tax goes, I guess I don't mind paying it because it is for the Pittman-Robertson Act.

You can read up more on the act here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman-Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act

The Pittman-Robertson Act took over a pre-existing 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition.[7][8] Instead of going into the U.S. Treasury as it had done in the past, the money is kept separate and is given to the Secretary of the Interior to distribute to the States.[4][8][9] The Secretary determines how much to give to each state based on a formula that takes into account both the area of the state and its number of licensed hunters.

not to get political, but from what I understand the Pittman-Robertson Act money has been or is more secure than the Social Security funds. I think that probably within the past year or two the NRA actually sued the federal government because some Pittman-Robertson funds were diverted for something other than hunting/conservation.

Lately, I have been harping here on the forums about USPSA pushing for range protection laws. Now this is a stretch, but it would be nice to use existing Pittman-Robertson funds or language to ...oh....I don't know...buy up land around ranges as buffer zones...or to prevent or reduce liability from encroachment.

No ranges=no matches=NO USPSA

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No ranges=no matches=NO USPSA

This is a good point. My home club opened in 1926 and we have been in a 2 year legal battle over encroachment issues and insufficient buffer among other permitting issues. Our club has served as a LEO training site and when I was in the military we had qual shoots there and when all of this legal trouble started there was no friend in the sky that swooped in to save us.

Lee

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Reality check. If someone is in your house and gets hurt YOU are liable for at least medical costs. If someone pulls the handle of your Dillon and BOOM, you are liable. That being said, I let friends roll their own and enjoy watching them shoot their own ammo.

Friend [frɛnd]

n

1. a person known well to another and regarded with liking, affection, and loyalty; an intimate

2. an acquaintance or associate

3. an ally in a fight or cause; supporter

4. a fellow member of a party, society, etc.

5. a patron or supporter a friend of the opera

be friends (with) to be friendly (with)

make friends (with) to become friendly (with)

vb

(tr) an archaic word for befriend

[Old English frēond; related to Old Saxon friund, Old Norse frǣndi, Gothic frijōnds, Old High German friunt]

friendless adj

friendlessness n

friendship n

Either trust your friend or not. YMMV :cheers:

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The answer is still NO.

You need a manufacturers license, zoneing clearance - meaning not at home, insurance and possibly eachof the loads have to be tested by a government agency at your cost.

Let's say you did load ammo, without any of the above conditions, and the buyer bblew up his gun and injured his hand. He's coming after you with a lawyer, and in all probability, you will lose everything and maybe have to pay him for the rest of your life.

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I don't think it would get quite that dramatic but could force you into bankruptcy if you were not insured (that will follow you around for 7 years or so), in many states the house you live in is protected too.

If the government "tested" reloads ever there wouldn't be such pitifull examples selling out there.

I have known people to have assembled components that were given to them by someone else, I have had folks reload at my house an have reloaded at others homes as well.

Were I wanting "get around" the law I would first contact the agency that would be prosecuting me. 304-616-3500 is the number to the NFA branch of the BATFE but I am sure they can direct you to the right person (if not answer your question). If the answer you get seems too good to be true, have them send/email you a letter stating the "thumbs up" and keep it safe.

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The answer is 'NO', not without a Class 6 FFL. Having said this I will add that obtaining a Class 6 FFL is not only easy but also very inexpensive.

Easy? Inexpensive? Not in my experience.

The Feds are relatively easy to deal with. It's the state and local approvals that are difficult to get. The first thing the ATF will do when you apply is call your state and local officials and inform them of your request to operate an ammunition factory at the location you specify as the "place of business". This cannot be your house unless your town has no zoning laws or by some freak of nature "ammunition production" is an approved use in a residential zone (hint: it isn't). If the state and local officials haven't already approved your request, the ATF will deny the application.

The kicker in all this is that you need to own / lease the "place of business" BEFORE you apply at all levels, so that means floating the facility costs out of pocket until the approvals come in...usually a year or more. Since the biggest sticking points are zoning related (yes, Mr. Zoning Officer, I'll be discharging 338 Lapua in my on-site test chamber and generating lots of noise and lead waste in the process), that means you have to apply at the local level first, get the zoning approval, then apply to the state, and finally, the ATF.

If anyone thinks they're going to submit a form and a check for $30 to the ATF and be in the ammo biz, I have a bridge to sell you.

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If anyone thinks they're going to submit a form and a check for $30 to the ATF and be in the ammo biz, I have a bridge to sell you.

Actually, I know 3 guys I can think of off the top of my head that have done just that with a simple sight inspection and in residential neighborhoods. All of them quit after they got tired of losing money by selling their reloaded ammo.

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Actually, I know 3 guys I can think of off the top of my head that have done just that with a simple sight inspection and in residential neighborhoods. All of them quit after they got tired of losing money by selling their reloaded ammo.

In what state did these guys operate?

Incidentally, it doesn't surprise me that they got out of the biz, since the only way to make money in loading ammo is in high volume. One person cranking / monitoring a press cannot possibly sell enough ammo to cover the overhead, at least in an expensive metro area like the one I live in.

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Any prohibition against giving away reloaded ammo?

I dont know and would like to know as well. I know a young guy who is just getting into some target shooting plinking stuff and I gave him a couple hundred of my 9mm reloads. I told him that I was giving him the ammo to break down and reload but what he did with them was his business.

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I don't think it would get quite that dramatic but could force you into bankruptcy if you were not insured (that will follow you around for 7 years or so), in many states the house you live in is protected too.

If the government "tested" reloads ever there wouldn't be such pitifull examples selling out there.

I have known people to have assembled components that were given to them by someone else, I have had folks reload at my house an have reloaded at others homes as well.

Were I wanting "get around" the law I would first contact the agency that would be prosecuting me. 304-616-3500 is the number to the NFA branch of the BATFE but I am sure they can direct you to the right person (if not answer your question). If the answer you get seems too good to be true, have them send/email you a letter stating the "thumbs up" and keep it safe.

Why not?

It's become a lawsuit society. Everyone a potential victim of a suit.

There wouldn't be a problem with someone bringing their components to your house and load on your equipment - I won't allow it.

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