Why the importance to cadence shooting?

[Cy Soto]

I recently came across an exercise thought by Ron Avery designed to help improve cadence shooting. It involves three targets each with a Trigger Bar Target on the "A" zone.

It's all good 'til that point but my question is: What is the importance of learning cadence shooting?

[38supPat]

This video by TGO is basically the same type of drill an he explains it pretty well

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=CA#/watch?v=YLRxohRdIys

[MustangGreg66]

I say unless you're really slow or want to work on your transition VS split times then cadence will eventually slow you down. I'm at the point where I have a cadence in my mind for how fast I think I should shoot something and when I do it, it feels slow. I have this feeling that if I just shot the targets as soon as they became visible and I recovered from recoil that I could be faster. I find that I'm not in that Zen state because my mind is thinking or counting out the cadence.

One part that helped though, was evening out splits and transitions. If you do like that drill says, but split it between say 3 targets, two shots each and count to 6. Count evenly, splits and transitions taking the same amount of time and go faster and faster. I found that helped to get rid of the shoot two, transition, shoot two syndrome. Definitly helped my fluidity on clusters of targets.

[Cy Soto]

I'm at the point where I have a cadence in my mind for how fast I think I should shoot something...

Yeap, that is the way that I thought targets need to be engaged but I keep hearing all the top dogs talk about the importance of learning cadence shooting.

[Cy Soto]

This video by TGO is basically the same type of drill an he explains it pretty well

The video link takes me to my Favorites page on YouTube.

[Bigpops]

Cy - I struggled with this concept for a bit until I learned that the cadence revolves around seeing what is required and driving the gun. Once I started performing drills and relying on my timer to show me transitions and splits....it sort of came together.

I had confused "cadence shooting" with shooting in a rythm vice shooting at a speed required for the difficulty and distance to the target. A shot at 10 yards sounded the same as a shot at 20 -25 yards. Simply put - I was lazy behind the gun.

Steve

[steel1212]

Drive for show putt for dough, in golf terms. Fast splits look cool on video but what wins the stages is fast transitions. You don't necesarily need to slow down you splits, if your getting good hits but speed up the transitions to match the splits and still get good hits is the trick. Take a 100th or 2 off your splits to see good sights and speed up your transitions a 100th or 2. Same time right but probably end up with better hits. Now speed it all up together.

[Cy Soto]

Drive for show putt for dough, in golf terms. Fast splits look cool on video but what wins the stages is fast transitions. You don't necesarily need to slow down you splits, if your getting good hits but speed up the transitions to match the splits and still get good hits is the trick. Take a 100th or 2 off your splits to see good sights and speed up your transitions a 100th or 2. Same time right but probably end up with better hits. Now speed it all up together.

Now THAT I can understand!! Life makes sense now; Thank You!!

[pjb45]

How many times have you heard smooth is fast.

In a match your cadence should come as a subconscious effort. It will depend on the specific set of shots for that array of targets. I know that when I have an array of four targets, when my cadence is smooth, my shots are called, I post my fastest times.

There is nothing wrong with working on your cadence. Every GM I ever talked to, mentioned something about cadence. I have watched several super squads over the years. They one thing that perks up the gallery is a smooth cadence. They all stop talking and start watching the shooter.

I think Matt Burkett had a cadence drill on his website at one time.

For me, cadence drills are in my set of drills that I practice. I have steadily become a better shooter via good solid drills.

[Flexmoney]

I'll bet you are thinking of Burkett's timing drill...which is different from cadence.

[Flexmoney]

I'll add this...

If you let cadence drive your actual shooting...your screwed. You will end up a slave to the cadence. You will break the shot when cadence tells you to...whether you are on target or NOT.

Vision is where it's at. I end up shooting faster with vision anyway.

[West Texas Granny]

Strange. I find a good cadence results in a smooth target acquisition, shooting rhythm, proper breathing, development of muscle memory, better stage times and higher scores. I find that it works for me but it might not work for others.

[38supPat]

What classification do you hold currently?

[Kali]

I keep hearing all the top dogs talk about the importance of learning cadence shooting.

This is just my take, but it IS important to learn about cadence and how it can help your shooting, but its not the shooting in and of itself. Just as my daughter uses her metronome while practicing piano to establish her rhythm and flow for a particular piece, she puts it away once her pace is established. Cadence doesn't dictate her artistic interpretation (vision) of where the pauses and uptempo variations occur while she is performing. Its the difference between copying music and producing art.

You can also think of cadence and how it relates to commas and periods. If you use constant cadence while writing a paragraph (no commas or periods) we would all sound like robots. Cadence can help with transitionary aspects of flowing from one word to another, but to write articulately, you need a higher knowledge of sentence structure. 1,1,1,1,1,1 = The cat ran up the tree. vs 1,1__1,1__1,1 = The cat. Ran up. The tree.

Shooting two very close targets, one 40 yard steel, then 3 more close targets, it might be a good time to insert a period to break up the cadence. 1,1,1,1. ____1.____1,1,1,1,1,1. If you watch the top shooters shoot, it sounds like they are playing a musical composition, the targets and their positioning are the sheet music.

If you look up the definition of Cadence the common definition is "Balanced, rhythmic flow." But in music, it is defined as "A progression of chords moving to a harmonic close, point of rest, or sense of resolution."

In closing, Cadence isn't a method or way of shooting, its a training tool. You don't think of shooting in cadence WHILE you are shooting a stage. Some sections of the stage may be better served by flowing through the targets with a rhythm but its done subconsciously. Your vision reads the "notes" and your subconscious plays it.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Kali

[DoubleA]

Cadence shooting does sound cool and gets attention, but I think it's a learning tool and good to pull out of your bag of tricks if a useful opportunity presents itself at a match. Learning to shoot an El Prez and it sound like a bill drill does have its benefits. I think it forces you to learn what you can really get away with when transitioning and then gives you the confidence to use that knowledge in an applicable situation. I still believe that the goal is to see WHAT you are getting away with so that increased vision is the byproduct of cadence shooting and then the appearance of cadence shooting from the perspective of others is the byproduct of that increased vision (especially with high variables of target distance and spacing). In the end the shooting still needs to be based on vision and not a set rhythm.

[XRe]

Since no one has actually answered the OP's question...

The purpose behind PRACTICING with a cadence is to force you to control the gun to get back into the target and be able to see what you need to see to break the next shot - and to learn what that looks and feels like. This may involve shooting a single target at a specific cadence to work recoil control and trigger control aspects (it takes discipline to shoot a cadence with a specific timing and not just start hammering at the target). It might involve target transitions (for instance, three targets, shoot two at each target, but break each shot on a 1/2 or 1/4 second cadence). It might involve movement (typically with a longer cadence, depending on the drill).

It works because it forces you to have the gun back on target, lined up, trigger prepped exactly when the cadence beat arrives - this is a somewhat different kind of work from just driving the gun, and it develops the skill set from a different direction. As a practice tool, it's extremely useful. It also gives you a different and frequently more useful way to push on your transition times. It's not a tool you want to use a lot - it's powerful medicine, and as such should be taken in small doses...

Contrast that with how you approach shooting a stage at a match - you don't want to rely on a cadence at all, you want to see the sights and drive the gun based on sight picture (which is what everyone's saying above).

[dravz]

Since no one has actually answered the OP's question...

The purpose behind PRACTICING with a cadence is to force you to control the gun to get back into the target and be able to see what you need to see to break the next shot - and to learn what that looks and feels like. This may involve shooting a single target at a specific cadence to work recoil control and trigger control aspects (it takes discipline to shoot a cadence with a specific timing and not just start hammering at the target). It might involve target transitions (for instance, three targets, shoot two at each target, but break each shot on a 1/2 or 1/4 second cadence). It might involve movement (typically with a longer cadence, depending on the drill).

It works because it forces you to have the gun back on target, lined up, trigger prepped exactly when the cadence beat arrives - this is a somewhat different kind of work from just driving the gun, and it develops the skill set from a different direction. As a practice tool, it's extremely useful. It also gives you a different and frequently more useful way to push on your transition times. It's not a tool you want to use a lot - it's powerful medicine, and as such should be taken in small doses...

Contrast that with how you approach shooting a stage at a match - you don't want to rely on a cadence at all, you want to see the sights and drive the gun based on sight picture (which is what everyone's saying above).

I know this is an old topic but thanks for the excellent explanation, Dave.

[lawboy]

Dave, thanks! I have never heard it explained as well by anyone!

[Stumphenhammer]

I find that it helps me to write myself guides to whatever I'm learning. I found this thread after having recently started using the Trigger Bar drill myself, and, as a result, utilized some of the posts here, specifically Dave's, to round out my own training guide. Hoping Dave (or anyone else) will check/validate my work on this and add, edit, improve as desired. Here's how I've articulated it, and linked below is a printable version (PDF) of the target  that I created for my own use:

 

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CADENCE / TRIGGER BAR DRILL

 

Purpose: (1) Force the shooter to apply solid fundamentals to control the gun so it returns to the target in the most efficient manner possible. (2) Train the shooter to see what they need to see to break the next shot, and to know what that looks and feels like.

 

Note: This is practice, not to be confused with how you should shoot in competition or otherwise. The goal is to engrain efficient technique at the subconscious level, then let the subconscious take over. In practical application (e.g. a competition) you wouldn’t count cadence, or rely on a cadence at all, you would see the sights and drive the gun based on acceptable sight picture. As such, this drill should be used sparingly once you have established the ability to consistently shoot with a rhythmic cadence at speed.

 

Tips: (1) A solid grip, NPOA, and weight-slightly-forward-biased stance are fundamental to this drill, otherwise recoil will push you further back on each shot, requiring you to either lean forward again for each shot, or to shoot each subsequent shot with your pistol in a slightly different position that the last one it fired from (2) You must prep your trigger quickly and as soon as the previous shot breaks. That is, on the return trigger pull you must move past the reset point and well into the “wall” before the sights return to whatever alignment is appropriate for the target size and distance. If you are slow on re-prepping the trigger you will find yourself behind the curve and rushing each subsequent shot.

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BTW: You can find the original version of the Trigger Bar Target and many others on Tactical Performance Center's Website: https://tacticalperformancecenter.com/printable-targets/

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

Cadence : Trigger Bar Target.pdf

Edited December 21, 2019 by Stumphenhammer