deerassassin22 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Here is my load 180 gr MG CMJ Misc Nickle casings Trimmed to .840 CCI SP primers 4.8 gr TiteGroup 1.135 OAL GUN STI Eagle .40cal 5inch stock 10 shot string low was 950 high 1028 I load all my match rounds on a single stage press and trickle each charge by hand to exactly 4.8. I also trim to .839 to .840 to ensure uniformity along with OAL. I ran out of light so I couldn't play anymore but all rounds were in that window. I thought I would be more consistent and was a new chronograph new battery any thoughts. Edited December 21, 2011 by deerassassin22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 What was the std deviation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You are probably the only person I personally have heard of that trims his pistol cases. Trimming the case won't affect oal will it? oal is based off the bullet. I have never loaded a nickel case but with regular brass cases you will get more variance than you might think by loading mixed brass. First thing I would do is sort out 100 that you are sure are once fired same headstamp and load them and see how they do. Mixed headstamp will have slightly different internal dimensions that will affect pressure and therefore typically velocity. Also different brand cases will come out shorter in oal than others. I don't know or care why, I just know it does. After trying that next thing I would do is get some 320. I got some loads down to an SD of 4 with it. Very very consistent. What was your SD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Here is my load 180 gr MG CMJ Misc Nickle casings Trimmed to .840 CCI SP primers 4.8 gr TiteGroup 1.135 OAL GUN STI Eagle .40cal 5inch stock 10 shot string low was 950 high 1028 I load all my match rounds on a single stage press and trickle each charge by hand to exactly 4.8. I also trim to .839 to .840 to ensure uniformity along with OAL. I ran out of light so I couldn't play anymore but all rounds were in that window. I thought I would be more consistent and was a new chronograph new battery any thoughts. Either your chronograph is off, or, you have a really slow barrel. I make 950 fps out of my 5" Eagle, and both of my Trojans with 4.7 of Titegroup, at 1.2" OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 --- I ran out of light so I couldn't play anymore but all rounds were in that window.--- Does this mean you were doing your measurements in rapidly changing lighting conditions like sunset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Lots of possible variables, none the least of which is that scales are not exact, the best accuracy is + or - .1gr so some could be 4.7 some could be 4.9 and everthing in between. On the good side your slowest round is 171pf. If I were getting ready for a major match in the next week or two I'd leave it alone. But since it will be a while before a major I would suggest loading 10 at 4.5, 4.6, 4.7 and re-run your crono test. You maybe be at a point that I call F of X, a calculas term, right on the edge of a pressure spike that could be causing erratic readings. I had this with TruBlue in 38SC I kept adding powder and they kept going slower, then I had a good look at the primers and ooooopppppsie they were flowing. If you are putting a lot of crimp on it back off on the crimp. I don't have my load book hand but I recall TiteGroup had an sd around 33 when I was using it with 200gr Zeros. N320 is a good powder, expensive but very good, it made me a little crazy at the crono I kept getting Dupes on the display. I will say this at an oal of 1.140 with TiteGroup and WST and jacketed bullets I had some cases split and a couple of head seperations, nothing dangerous, just spoils your stage and the match so do not use old tired bass at that short OAL. Nickel is made for people with leather belts that have the same ammo for years, so it does not corrode, I have found it does not last as long as regular brass in reloading. It can be easier to find but that is about it. Edited December 22, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 I will shoot some rounds again tomorrow. At least I don't have to worry about making PF with the load. I also make a few different loads when I get home from vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 I will shoot some rounds again tomorrow. At least I don't have to worry about making PF with the load. I also make a few different loads when I get home from vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokken Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 What are you trying to achive here? Ive never known anyone to trim .40 brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 I got bored decided to make it all the same size for uniformity and to see if trimming the brass and cleaning primer pockets, and resizing the pocket did anything. I just was wondering why the deviation is so far apart I loaded them all on a Single Stage all powder primers same lot, and powerd all weighed on same scale at the same time using a trickler for same weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I also trim to .839 to .840 to ensure uniformity along with OAL...I got bored decided to make it all the same size for uniformity and to see if trimming the brass and cleaning primer pockets, and resizing the pocket did anything...Yes, it did. It blew your std deviation and wasted an hour or more of your life, never to be replaced. I hope you are satisfied... Edited December 28, 2011 by ben b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Care to explain how? If the cases were all the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It upset the dysplutrenium equivalence factor by a parsifuge or more, thereby wrecking the centriified hobnostel index. Recalibrating the defostictor should square that up. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 try this take a strait wall pistol case (40 s&w 45 acp) measure its length, load it, shoot it and repeat. the cases shrink they don't grow. 50 fps is about what i expect with mixed brass more then good enough for USPSA. if you need tighter spreads sort brass but I think your time is much better spent shooting then loading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40S&W Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Just a few suggestions. 1. Mark your chrono rods so that you are shooting thru the same area and make sure you have a good solid gun rest. 2. Shoot 2-3 rounds prior to starting the chrono run. Warm the barrel up a little. 3. Make sure the chrono is the required distance from the muzzle and always use the same distance. 4. Chonos will read a little different in sun or shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If you are putting a lot of crimp on it back off on the crimp. That won't make any difference. I've run a series of tests with varying amounts of crimp, and case resizing (minimal resizing to full-length, to undersized), and saw no difference that you could repeat (i.e. they were all within normal variation). If additional bullet pull (neck tension) isn't changing velocity or consistency, crimp isn't going to, so long as we're talking about straight-walled cases, with bullets that don't have a cannelure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Did some shooting toady chrono was at 10ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Nickel casings creates slightly higher velocities than brass at least in my experiance.... Mix brass on avrage will render 50fps max spread -+ 10fps What's more important is to look at your standard divination (the avrage difference in velocity from shot to shot) this is a closer measurement of ammo consitnacy than max spread... With mix brass your standard divination will be around 15fps -+ 5fps. If your chrono doesn't calculate stand div for you. The you can calculate it your self by following this steps.. 1)Figure out your avrage velocity Add all velocities and the divide the result by the number of velocities 2)Figure out the difference in velocity for each of the original velocities from the avrage For example if you first velocity is 936 and your avrage is 955 the difference is 19 Do this for all the velocities 3)get the avrage all of the differces in velocity from step 2 Keep in mind that as some of the gentleman above mention.. Chrono's are not very precise machines.. It's all a giant gusstimate.. So if your not shooting bianchi don't worry to much about it it.. Also Montana gold is crazy over kill.. Switch to Molly, I ran montana gold for nationals this year on brand new brass that chronoed between 11 and 9 standard div.. And my groups at 15 yards were identical to my bear creek mix range brass from rest.. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 ...What's more important is to look at your standard divination (the avrage difference in velocity from shot to shot) this is a closer ... standard divination... FWIW, you are talking about standard deviation, but I do like the sound of standard divination more. I will pass that on to my old stats prof, he'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 ...What's more important is to look at your standard divination (the avrage difference in velocity from shot to shot) this is a closer ... standard divination... FWIW, you are talking about standard deviation, but I do like the sound of standard divination more. I will pass that on to my old stats prof, he'll love it. Lol ups thats what I meant,that's what I get for doing all my typing on my iPhone I'll edit the post when I get near a real keyboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) I went and shot today had better results. Chrono was at 10ft to front of machine and working on my lead still like jacketed bullets as well. Edited January 1, 2012 by deerassassin22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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