Hitting a wall.

[steve123]

I too like shooting steel. In fact, stand and deliver courses of fire have always been my strong point. I guess that's why the classifier is almost always always my best stage in an IPSC match.

As far as steel, I went from so-so to pretty decent in a couple of seasons with minimal live fire, perhaps 20,000 rounds total (dedicated just to steel) in a couple of seasons with each "season" being April-August. I was deep into Master class in USPSA at the time and knocking hard on the door to GM. Shooting until I am ankle deep in brass just to be shooting makes things worse. FWIW, the draw has never been my strong point, but I usually have pretty sporty transitions. In my case, I needed to train my vision through a ton of dry fire, and I worked on my mental game. Sometimes it isn't as much a matter of developing skills as it is a matter of just getting your stuff together.

I imagine that if I had a official MGM plate rack to practice on and a bunch of other regulation steel at a local venue, like a real shooting range, I would have been able to improve more than I did.

See, I think my first premise is 90% of what my problem was. 5000 rounds is not a large enough quantity of practice to achieve a master level. Given that I do have a certain amount of natural shooting ability I was able to go from C to A with relative ease. Going from A to master is another story. Mega practice and probably some mentoring.

[Ron Ankeny]

Steve123:

As I mentioned in my post, the biggest improvement came from working on my mental game and training my vision through dry fire. Yeah, I shot 10,000 rounds a year (season) but that's because I really like to shoot. I also have unlimited access to plate racks, the complete Steel Challenge course of fire, and so forth. I also want you to know that a huge amount of those rounds were fired just because I thought I needed to shoot a boat load of ammo. Truth is, there were days that I shot, and shot some more, without a goal or any direction. I probably wasted a lot of ammo and time when I would have been better off taking a break.

[steve123]

Steve123:

As I mentioned in my post, the biggest improvement came from working on my mental game and training my vision through dry fire. Yeah, I shot 10,000 rounds a year (season) but that's because I really like to shoot. I also have unlimited access to plate racks, the complete Steel Challenge course of fire, and so forth. I also want you to know that a huge amount of those rounds were fired just because I thought I needed to shoot a boat load of ammo. Truth is, there were days that I shot, and shot some more, without a goal or any direction. I probably wasted a lot of ammo and time when I would have been better off taking a break.

Yes I understand.

There were days,(still are in other shooting disciplines) that I just packed up and went home. Sometimes things just aren't working out that day. No use in wasting ammo.

Duly noted with the dry fire.

Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless.

Thanks for all your help guys.

[Grunt]

Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless.

It is perfectly fine, even normal, to be pushing the gun back on target after the bang. This isn't so much controlling recoil as it is getting the gun back on target quickly. Now, if the gun is pushed *prior* to the bang, then that is obviously a bad thing and will result typically in low shots.

In other shooting disciplines (i.e. precision shooting) where the time limits are much more liberal, you tend not to see the push after the bang. Generally, there's no need for it. In fact, most shooters from this realm are completely perplexed when you try to explain to them the idea of pushing the gun back on target. Its just not something they do.

Grunt

[dsmw5142]

Steve123:

As I mentioned in my post, the biggest improvement came from working on my mental game and training my vision through dry fire. Yeah, I shot 10,000 rounds a year (season) but that's because I really like to shoot. I also have unlimited access to plate racks, the complete Steel Challenge course of fire, and so forth. I also want you to know that a huge amount of those rounds were fired just because I thought I needed to shoot a boat load of ammo. Truth is, there were days that I shot, and shot some more, without a goal or any direction. I probably wasted a lot of ammo and time when I would have been better off taking a break.

Yes I understand.

There were days,(still are in other shooting disciplines) that I just packed up and went home. Sometimes things just aren't working out that day. No use in wasting ammo.

Duly noted with the dry fire.

Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Steve,

What you see when you're shooting fast and the muzzle dips because the gun went "click" instead of "bang" is probably not a flinch response. It's more of a subconcious need translating to a concious effort to attempt to control the recoil and get back on target faster. Saul Kirsch (Thinking Practical Shooting) or Brian Enos talk about it in their book. I can't remember which author (maybe both). Either way, it's pretty normal and not something to be overly concerned with. When a shooter starts advancing in their skills set it happens.

[Flexmoney]

For the most part I'd be watching the front site.

If you are watching the front sight while you transition between targets...that will be slow.

You will want to see the front sight as you call your shot on your current target, once you see that...THEN snap your eyes to a SPOT on the next target. The eyes will get there quicker than the gun. Be sure to pick a SPOT on the target. Once the gun starts to show up, bring your vision back to a razor sharp focus on the front sight again.

[Steve Anderson]

To get to the next level... (whatever that is)

You need a practice schedule that addresses your weaknesses and turns them into strengths.

You must set a schedule and stick to it.

You need to be doing structured dry fire drills for at least 30 minutes a day, preferably 30 minutes twice a day.

(There might be a book that gives some structure to dry firing so it's not, pardon the pun, "aimless")

Back that up with live fire at least twice a week and you WILL see improvement.

The importance of a regular schedule cannot be overstated, as many of your breakthroughs will occur when you don't really want to be practicing.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Steve Anderson

[steve123]

Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless.

It is perfectly fine, even normal, to be pushing the gun back on target after the bang. This isn't so much controlling recoil as it is getting the gun back on target quickly. Now, if the gun is pushed *prior* to the bang, then that is obviously a bad thing and will result typically in low shots.

In other shooting disciplines (i.e. precision shooting) where the time limits are much more liberal, you tend not to see the push after the bang. Generally, there's no need for it. In fact, most shooters from this realm are completely perplexed when you try to explain to them the idea of pushing the gun back on target. Its just not something they do.

Grunt

Thanks Grunt. Ok I'm fine then.

Yes, if I'm shooting slow then I follow through. I have some Olympic air pistols I shoot so with them it's different than how I shoot combat pistol at speed.

[steve123]

Steve123:

As I mentioned in my post, the biggest improvement came from working on my mental game and training my vision through dry fire. Yeah, I shot 10,000 rounds a year (season) but that's because I really like to shoot. I also have unlimited access to plate racks, the complete Steel Challenge course of fire, and so forth. I also want you to know that a huge amount of those rounds were fired just because I thought I needed to shoot a boat load of ammo. Truth is, there were days that I shot, and shot some more, without a goal or any direction. I probably wasted a lot of ammo and time when I would have been better off taking a break.

Yes I understand.

There were days,(still are in other shooting disciplines) that I just packed up and went home. Sometimes things just aren't working out that day. No use in wasting ammo.

Duly noted with the dry fire.

Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Steve,

What you see when you're shooting fast and the muzzle dips because the gun went "click" instead of "bang" is probably not a flinch response. It's more of a subconcious need translating to a concious effort to attempt to control the recoil and get back on target faster. Saul Kirsch (Thinking Practical Shooting) or Brian Enos talk about it in their book. I can't remember which author (maybe both). Either way, it's pretty normal and not something to be overly concerned with. When a shooter starts advancing in their skills set it happens.

Fantastic! Phew,I'm not crazy then.

Thanks !

[steve123]

For the most part I'd be watching the front site.

If you are watching the front sight while you transition between targets...that will be slow.

You will want to see the front sight as you call your shot on your current target, once you see that...THEN snap your eyes to a SPOT on the next target. The eyes will get there quicker than the gun. Be sure to pick a SPOT on the target. Once the gun starts to show up, bring your vision back to a razor sharp focus on the front sight again.

Next time I go out I'll try to identify exactly what I am doing. Things are different from 6 years ago when I used to compete a lot. I've had to start wearing reading glasses when I shoot pistol with irons. So now my eyes are focused on the front sight and everything else is blurry. Whats the solution to this problem?

[steve123]

To get to the next level... (whatever that is)

You need a practice schedule that addresses your weaknesses and turns them into strengths.

You must set a schedule and stick to it.

You need to be doing structured dry fire drills for at least 30 minutes a day, preferably 30 minutes twice a day.

(There might be a book that gives some structure to dry firing so it's not, pardon the pun, "aimless")

Back that up with live fire at least twice a week and you WILL see improvement.

The importance of a regular schedule cannot be overstated, as many of your breakthroughs will occur when you don't really want to be practicing.

Thanks for the advice Steve. Where do I buy your book?

[Steve Anderson]

You can get it from Brian's store, or from Andersonshooting.com

[t0066jh]

For the most part I'd be watching the front site.

If you are watching the front sight while you transition between targets...that will be slow.

You will want to see the front sight as you call your shot on your current target, once you see that...THEN snap your eyes to a SPOT on the next target. The eyes will get there quicker than the gun. Be sure to pick a SPOT on the target. Once the gun starts to show up, bring your vision back to a razor sharp focus on the front sight again.

Next time I go out I'll try to identify exactly what I am doing. Things are different from 6 years ago when I used to compete a lot. I've had to start wearing reading glasses when I shoot pistol with irons. So now my eyes are focused on the front sight and everything else is blurry. Whats the solution to this problem?

My solution to this problem was to get a new prescription from a fellow shooter (optometrist). New glasses for shooting that have the dominant eye focused on the front sight and the non dominant focused at 25 yards out (infinity). By the way, this is a very common fix for us folks over 50. I got my new glasses last December. It took a few days of dry fire and one match to get used to it. Now, I focus on the A zone of a target, the buzzer goes off, I draw and bring the gun up and the front sight is crystal clear in front of the A zone. Try it, you'll like it. Check it out in the equipment section of the forum and you'll find others who concur with this solution.

Joe

Edited December 20, 2011 by t0066jh

[steve123]

For the most part I'd be watching the front site.

If you are watching the front sight while you transition between targets...that will be slow.

You will want to see the front sight as you call your shot on your current target, once you see that...THEN snap your eyes to a SPOT on the next target. The eyes will get there quicker than the gun. Be sure to pick a SPOT on the target. Once the gun starts to show up, bring your vision back to a razor sharp focus on the front sight again.

Next time I go out I'll try to identify exactly what I am doing. Things are different from 6 years ago when I used to compete a lot. I've had to start wearing reading glasses when I shoot pistol with irons. So now my eyes are focused on the front sight and everything else is blurry. Whats the solution to this problem?

My solution to this problem was to get a new prescription from a fellow shooter (optometrist). New glasses for shooting that have the dominant eye focused on the front sight and the non dominant focused at 25 yards out (infinity). By the way, this is a very common fix for us folks over 50. I got my new glasses last December. It took a few days of dry fire and one match to get used to it. Now, I focus on the A zone of a target, the buzzer goes off, I draw and bring the gun up and the front sight is crystal clear in front of the A zone. Try it, you'll like it. Check it out in the equipment section of the forum and you'll find others who concur with this solution.

Joe

Thanks Joe! I'll go look.

[bigstick0000]

Find a grandmaster and train with him. Your skill level will grow exponetialy and you will learn more then you thought possible

[Sam]

Hi Steve!

First off, Welcome! It's really nice to have someone of your experience here on the forum. Shooting since the eighties, and shooting some of the matches you have, you will bring a lot of value to our discussions.

We all learn in different ways and at a different pace. I liked your thread title right away. "Hitting a wall". I hit a wall everyday! It's not so much Mastery of shooting that I'm working toward, although that is a very fun manifestation. Rather the fact that it requires, to some degree, a Mastery of me.

There are feats that I want to be able to perform, on demand, without even thinking or trying. There are contests that I want to engage in, where I risk enormous failure, but somehow prevail.

If it is Mastery you desire, then know that desire shapes lives. That which we set our heart upon, directs our path.

The one thing I can guarantee you is this: change is required.

If you realize that you have "hit a wall", you are exactly where you need to be.

Now, let's pick up our gear again, dust ourselves off, and........ do that one more time.

....this time, really pay attention.

[kevinj308]

http://artofmanliness.com/2011/08/14/plateau-busting-how-to-take-your-life-to-the-next-level/

[Sam]

That's a fun website, Kevin!

[HI5-O]

As was mentioned, it's not the number of rounds you put downrange, and finding someone better (GM) than you to work with helps.

I've read the books, done the drills and have gotten to the point where I would like to take some in-person training but it's hard to find someone willing to come out to the middle of the ocean for that (actually not hard, but $$$).

Also, I started shooting in Production division for the past few months in an attempt to change it up and chase the open shooters . That was a fun challenge to shoot minor against the open guys.

Now I'll be going back to shooting in open. We'll see if my open shooting improved

[West Texas Granny]

So you hit the wall. Happens to everyone regardless of activity. Feel stymied then take a week or two off of shooting. After the 2 weeks are over it's time to get to work. You have already done the easy part. Now it's time to get down to business. The difference between a good shooter and a great shooter is dedication.

This means range time no less then twice a week. I would suggest 3 but that's just me. Week in and week out.

Find a trainer as you will need that extra bit they can provide to make it to your goal.

Proper nutrition and exercise is mandatory. Proper sleep patterns are mandatory.

Film your practice sessions and have someone else evaluate them for any weakness or bad habits you may have.

Put on paper where you want to be and when. Your goal!

Keep a journal on your progress.

Remember practice makes perfect.

[co-exprs]

All great advise. If your time or funds are limited (both in my case), the quality of the practice becomes paramount. I do have a couple of small pointers which might help you get unstuck.

Break out the 22. You can stretch your budget by shooting a 22, if you have the time to put into the range. When I practice, I usually take my 22 and burn half a brick on medium to difficult targets. After that I run my competition pistol. When I realized I needed more trigger time and dusted off the 22, I had the most significant revelation ever. The 22 front sight moves so little I could track it. This allowed me to see better what I was doing wrong. I started making corrections and I busted through the wall.

Stance is key. People don't shoot open stance for accuracy. They shoot it because it triangulates the muscle and bone structure to provide improved recoil management. You may already be there now, but at some point your modified weaver stance will become the wall you hit. It's nothing personal, just physics.

There is nothing more wastefull than to make more efficient that which we shouldn't be doing at all. Lets say you shoot .2sec splits and it usually takes you about 20sec to finish a 20 shot course. You have 10 target splits at 2sec. That leaves 18sec unaccounted for and 18sec of time not scoreing points. What are you filling that 18 seconds with? Draw, reload, transitions, movement, makeup shots, start and stop moving, getting steady up on target after you move, confirming shots, waiting for visual and auditory feedback that you hit a steel target, etc. The more you understand about what makes up the 18 additional seconds of time and learn to be more efficient with that time, the more time you will have to make those accurate shots. Learn to break down your courses in a more efficient manor to minimize movement and to keep the gun running with the least amount of down time between targets. Most people view this as a shooting sport, but it's really an exercise in efficiency of motion, where shooting is required to score points. That doesn't sound as much fun as saying it's a shooting sport, but if you think of it that way, you will realize that there is actually far more opportunity for improvement in the 18sec of other stuff than in the 2sec of raw shooting. With a .2sec split, you could theoretically bill drill 20 shots in 4 sec. So 4 sec with all Alphas would be the true goal of every shooter. It's the goal of the stage designer to make it impossible to attain that goal. Even if you threw in the time for a really fast, 1sec draw and a really fast 1sec reload, you would still be at 6sec overall, which would still leave 14sec of down time. You still have to execute accurate shots when you get on target, but the real challenge is to get the gun on target, to keep the gun running.