ck1 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Was looking for something and came across a few pics of the Combat II today and they got me thinking... Why did it never go into production? Anyone know..? (I know it's a small contest, but if IIRC Adam Tyc only used one to edge out Dave Sevigny in a little match called the World Shoot a few years back...) I've owned both the SP-01 Shadow (full-dustcover model) and 75 Shadow (short-dustcover model), and while both are fantastic, IMHO the Combat II would really be the best of both worlds, a little faster handling, and with grips on the lighter-side likely able to make weight and be legal for IDPA, but with that little extra mass out front to have a closer feel to the SP-01 framed guns which IMHO track shot-to-shot like no other... I don't know, the 75 Shadow seemed to come about from CZ Custom answering the cry from shooters for a Shadow that would work in USPSA and IDPA, and I'm guessing they seemed to have sold really well considering how fast they made numbers to get approved. Why not give us a third option in Shadow-land, seems they'll just end up with another winner... Attached a poll, who knows, maybe someone with some influence with CZ will take notice... If you've never seen one, or have no idea what I'm blabbing about: CZ Combat II (notice the abbreviated/shortened rail/dustcover) Edited December 15, 2011 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 what am i missing that's different from a regular shadow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 what am i missing that's different from a regular shadow? (notice the abbreviated/shortened rail/dustcover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Shorter rail Combat II only existed for a short time when IPSC was trying to decide on legality of long dustcovers on production guns. So CZ ran off the Combat II's. I don't think any made it to the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 ah, zoomed in. so basically full length grip but compact length frame/rail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) ah, zoomed in. so basically full length grip but compact length frame/rail? Yes, kinda like the 40P, think STI Tactical vs. an Edge, or maybe the Springfield Operators with the half-rail instead of the full-rail... I know it's kind of splitting hairs, due to my location I just end up shooting IDPA more often than USPSA and tend to prefer the feel of the SP-framed Shadow over the 75 Shadow, this would be ideal for me. Edited December 15, 2011 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 i know the 40p, not the others... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Hopefully the big rule rewrite in IDPA will make the Full rail Shadow legal. (Dont tell me its legal now as long as its 39oz. I must have heavy one because with no grips or mag its over) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Looks like Angus doesn't think it's a horrible idea either... BOOM: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=44081.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Bassman Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I like that a lot. Would have to be without a FPB. I don't know that I'd trade my Shadow in to get one, but I really like the looks of the shorter rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer377 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Assuming no FPB, I'd buy 2. That'd be perfect. I've converted over to SP01 Shadows for both carry and games, and I'd rather not buy a bunch of crap in order to put the game Shadow on a diet to be able to play in IDPA. I'd rather buy a whole new gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreativecid Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 What is the "tiger teams" mentioned that would make the heavy SP01 Shadow legal in IDPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 basically they are rethinking their rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Assuming no FPB, I'd buy 2. That'd be perfect. I've converted over to SP01 Shadows for both carry and games, and I'd rather not buy a bunch of crap in order to put the game Shadow on a diet to be able to play in IDPA. I'd rather buy a whole new gun! What is the "tiger teams" mentioned that would make the heavy SP01 Shadow legal in IDPA? basically they are rethinking their rulebook. The Combat II has no FPB's, in fact, I may not have my info straight, but it may have actually been the the precursor to the Shadow model. That said, speaking of the IDPA Tiger Teams, that could clear up the whole nonsense... For me, I just want a combat II 'cause I tend to prefer the regular SP-framed Shadow to the 75 Shadow (just my personal preference) and I end up shooting IDPA matches more often than USPSA matches, if the IDPA Tiger Teams do away with the highly subjective "full-length dustcover or rail, and/or feature vs. modification nonsense" and then increase the weight limit in SSP to where heavier off-the shelf guns like a regular Shadow can be used legally without having to go on a "diet", then hoping for a Combat II would be mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSAJ19 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My understanding of the Combat II, is that it was originally an SP01 full length dust cover gun, but a protest was files re. eligibility of full dust cover guns at IPSC World Shoot (or similar). So in the interim, pending the decision, the dust cover was cut back by the factory, becoming Combat II. Which never made it to production? Basically a gun built for Adam Tyc @ 2004?, CZ's sponsored shooter & at the time, PD world champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My understanding of the Combat II, is that it was originally an SP01 full length dust cover gun, but a protest was files re. eligibility of full dust cover guns at IPSC World Shoot (or similar). So in the interim, pending the decision, the dust cover was cut back by the factory, becoming Combat II. Which never made it to production? Basically a gun built for Adam Tyc @ 2004?, CZ's sponsored shooter & at the time, PD world champion. IPSC doesn't (or didn't) have the minimum production count requirement that USPSA has, so that was able to fly. As I recall, there were a couple built (I think - this is memory, so I could be wrong - that Adam had a backup gun, as well?). There was an arbitration filed against the gun at that match, because it appeared to have had some material removed on the bottom right hand side of the trigger guard to allow for clearance of fingers - a modification that would be verboten if you did it to, say, an SP-01. However, the CZ factory rep testified that that was how the Combat II model was made, or that it was a factory option on the frame for the Combat II. The arbitration was denied. At least at the time all that went down, if you were a factory shooter, you could run any gun you liked in IPSC Production with essentially any modifications to the frame that you liked (given that they were within the remainder of the rules) as long as the factory would assign a model number to it for you, and testify that it was a factory configuration. I haven't kept up on the IPSC Production rules, so I don't know if that's changed, at this point. To be legal in USPSA, they'd have to product 2000 of them in that same configuration - no factory prototypes allowed... (note, I'm not seeking to stir up old crap - just pointing out the situation that occurred around this model at the match NOSAJ19 mentions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSAJ19 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 My understanding of the Combat II, is that it was originally an SP01 full length dust cover gun, but a protest was files re. eligibility of full dust cover guns at IPSC World Shoot (or similar). So in the interim, pending the decision, the dust cover was cut back by the factory, becoming Combat II. Which never made it to production? Basically a gun built for Adam Tyc @ 2004?, CZ's sponsored shooter & at the time, PD world champion. IPSC doesn't (or didn't) have the minimum production count requirement that USPSA has, so that was able to fly. As I recall, there were a couple built (I think - this is memory, so I could be wrong - that Adam had a backup gun, as well?). There was an arbitration filed against the gun at that match, because it appeared to have had some material removed on the bottom right hand side of the trigger guard to allow for clearance of fingers - a modification that would be verboten if you did it to, say, an SP-01. However, the CZ factory rep testified that that was how the Combat II model was made, or that it was a factory option on the frame for the Combat II. The arbitration was denied. At least at the time all that went down, if you were a factory shooter, you could run any gun you liked in IPSC Production with essentially any modifications to the frame that you liked (given that they were within the remainder of the rules) as long as the factory would assign a model number to it for you, and testify that it was a factory configuration. I haven't kept up on the IPSC Production rules, so I don't know if that's changed, at this point. To be legal in USPSA, they'd have to product 2000 of them in that same configuration - no factory prototypes allowed... (note, I'm not seeking to stir up old crap - just pointing out the situation that occurred around this model at the match NOSAJ19 mentions) Same mate, just for information. I see CZ USA list an SP01 model, on SA frame with fixed or adjustable sigh options. Would this not be a great compromise, between CZ 75 SP01 (Shadow) & CZ 75/85? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I see CZ USA list an SP01 model, on SA frame with fixed or adjustable sigh options. Would this not be a great compromise, between CZ 75 SP01 (Shadow) & CZ 75/85? The one that's labeled CZ 75 Shadow T-SA is actually a single action gun, so it's not a Production capable gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSAJ19 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) I see CZ USA list an SP01 model, on SA frame with fixed or adjustable sigh options. Would this not be a great compromise, between CZ 75 SP01 (Shadow) & CZ 75/85? The one that's labeled CZ 75 Shadow T-SA is actually a single action gun, so it's not a Production capable gun... Have a squiz at this one mate. http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/75shadowT/ I reckon it would be great. Edited December 22, 2011 by NOSAJ19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I reckon it would be great. If I understand correctly, the CZ 75 Shadow T is to the CZ 75 what the CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow T is to the CZ 75 SP-01. That is, it's a normal 75, minus the FPB and with some customization done to it. So, yeah, it'd be a good shooter for sure - but it doesn't really satisfy what the OP was looking for, though (that is, a weight and balance in between the normal CZ 75 and the long dustcover SP-01... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Angus just posted a picture of a Combat II on his facebook page..... Edited January 14, 2012 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yup. Here is a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 NICE! That's exactly what I've been after. That said, $1300 for a gun I can't legally use in Production or SSP might be a stretch, I hope this limited edition 4 is just the first of 1,996 more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Looks like the Angus version has a longer dustcover ?? Either way I would send my backup in for a retro fit/chop job if that was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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