Getting Good - How Long Did It Take

[kellyn]

Bret, your whole post ignores the idea that if you can't shoot good, look good!

[Kevin Kline]

How long? That depends on the shooter, and sometimes the equipment. The 1911's (ie STI, SVI, Para's) shorten the learning curve GREATLY. However, it can be done with most of the guns used, 1911's, Glocks, etc. It depends more on the shooter than the equipment, plus how much time he puts forth in practicing, dry fire, live fire, taking a class or two. But certain equipment can shorten the learning curve.

[3quartertime]

To drift a bit as many have from the original intent of this thread. I'll personalize it.

Time to get good must be weighted against desire to conquer a task. The different personal accounts and versions of 'how I became me' mean very little in the grand scheme. Ones journey can only be fulfilled when they find the spark that will make them want it more than everyone else. At that point the ways and means are just the method, not a template.

I started much like everyone else. Thought I was a pretty good shooter. Found out I sucked hard after one match. Took a year or so to figure out that I needed to really apply myself to a point that I could enjoy and compete. Got fairly serious and shot to B class. Life started to get in the way and I started to shoot less. Now I strive to shoot at all. At my peak I think I could be considered good. I was challenging master class shooters at local matches and many of the local shooters were saying stuff like ' Yeah I had a good stage, but I'll never shoot it like you did.' Felt pretty good at the time, but now those same shooters are waaaaaaay past me. Suxs now...

From this perspective I believe the way to improve is to remove the gun. I think when you can focus on you and your desire to place a scoring hit on the target you will be " good". Because I don't shoot much these days I daydream about stages. I imagine running a stage, seeing the targets and navigating familiar props. But I never see the gun. I have the impression of driving the gun from target to target, but I never feel/visualize interacting with the gun. I think this is a result of my intimacy with my gun. LOL... I've shot basically the same gun since I started competing. The grip seems to accept my hand as an extension.

Hopefully soon I'll get the crazy personal stuff straightened out again and I'll start shooting. When I do I know I'll be good. But I'm getting older too. I might confuse the shooting with the feeling.

[sargenv]

It's funny, I've gotten myself up to a pretty average B shooter. The thing is, I'm classified in all divisions (B in Lim and Lim 10, C in the rest). My problem, if it is a problem, is I like to shoot all the divisions. Right now I'm working on getting to B Production. I kind of like to be a general shooter that is good at all of it rather than getting to a specific class, and then having all my classifiers be 1 step down from my now higher classification.

To a lot of people, they tell me I'm good, I think I'm mediocre, but I have some skills that other people have trouble with. So it's all relative.

Vince

[Tangram]

Todd Bender recounted this story in his article "How Long Till You Succeed?" ShotgunSports 01/07.

"Such discussions always remind me of one of my favorite stories about a young man who traveled far to visit the school of a famous martial arts master. When he arrived, he was given an opportunity to speak to the master."

"What do you wish from me?" the master asked.

"I wish to be your student and become the finest karateka in the land," the man replied. "How long must I study?"

"Ten years at least," the master answered.

"Ten years is a long time," said the young man. "What if I studied twice as hard as all your other students?"

"Twenty years," replied the master.

"Twenty years! What if I practice day and night with all my effort?"

"Thirty years," was the masters reply.

How is it each time I say I will work harder, you tell me it will take longer," the boy asked.

"The answer is clear," said the master. "When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the way."

Later in the article Bender wrote.

"Instead of focusing on how long it will take to reach your goal, focus on how well you learn the basics and techniques necessary to reach your goal."

[hitman]

By some standards I am good, very very good but by my standards I will never be good enough, I will continue to learn and improve as long as I can.

[Matt Griffin]

I'd say that I've shot about 12,000 rounds of centerfire pistol in my life. Although I'm currently unclassified due to some weird weekend work I've been doing for the last few years, plus a girlfriend, I've just started shooting real matches again, and my classifiers are in the high B-low A range. I know for a fact that I can be much better than I am now. I'm winning all the local matches, give or take, in USPSA and Steel.

H.

[38superman]

It really depends on how you define "good".

I am a B class shooter after 2 years in IPSC and still improving slowly but surely.

I'm guessing I put about 20,000 rounds downrange during that timespan.

However, I have been on many casual shooting outings with friends, co-workers, police officers, etc over the years and I could outshoot any of them by a wide margin.

Based on what I have seen, if you are an average IPSC shooter you're already in the top 5 -10% of the general population.

This is due to the fact that most civilians and even M&P simply don't come close to shooting the number of rounds each year of a competitive shooter.

I'll say it again, Good is relative.

Good as compared to who.

If you mean good as compared to the elite shooters in IPSC you are comparing yourself with the best in world.

Some people manage to climb to the top of the sport in 2-3 years but they are the exception not the rule.

Others peak at C class and can get no farther despite their best efforts.

How long it takes is really a matter of personal talent, potential, and level of commitment.

Just keep chopping wood and let good take care of itself.

Tls

Edited January 4, 2007 by tlshores

[ArnisAndyz]

Here's a newby perspective on dryfire...I've been shooting IDPA for about a year and a half so I'm still working on getting "good". I recently shot a high sharpshooter score in the classifier last month (single digits below expert). After my very first match everyone said dryfire, dryfire, dryfire!!!...so I did. Problem was, I didn't have enough experience to know what to look for or what to do in dryfire! Things like drawing, reloading and moving were very helpful in dryfire. But my shooting finally started improving when I discovered how to call a shot. I needed to have that image of what I need to see burned into my brain through livefire in order to use that in dryfire practice. I can't pick an exact time or round count when I started actually knowing where my shots were going, it was a gradual thing until one day I understood. People can tell you what to look for but you need to put the time in to understand what they are talking about. Now I know what I need to do, I have a purpose on what I want to accomplish when I dryfire, my current task (what I think will help me the most right now) is to get input from my sights faster, that might be just seeing faster, or it might be an adjustment to the basics to get better body alignment, its and endless cycle.

In summary (for me) it was:

1) Basic body mechanics, grip stance, mentally understanding the game, etc

2) Livefire (including matches) - adjustments to basics

3) Dryfire - working on draw, reloading, moving, pointing the gun at a target

4) Livefire - lightbulb comes on! I can call a shot consistantly!

5) Dryfire - I can fire a shot and know where its going without bullets...cool.

6) Steady improvement - repeat. I still practice the basics and now all of these kind of overlap each other as adjustments or new skills are explored and practiced, they are all put through the fire before they are added or discarded.

Edited January 4, 2007 by ArnisAndyz

[Allgoodhits]

How long did it take you to get good at competitive shooting? How many rounds? Good? Say going from just pointing downrange to shooting at master level IDPA. (Or however you would like to define good)

Rick

Reading your post, and responding to your question. Shooting good and shooting good in competition may be quite different answers. If you are improving, that is good.

Shooting good: When your subsequent shooting is better than before, and it continues to progress. Setbacks, plateaus are common, but general progression and improvement. In time, with this approach, you will become not only good but best.

Competing good: When your average practice scores equal your average competition match scores.

We all get wrapped around what someone else shoots. We have no control over what others shoot. Shoot each of your shots, one at a time, as accurately as you can, and if IDPA/USPSA as quickly as you can accurately. Doing just about anything else is "stinking thinking" and it will probably hold you back or otherwise sabotage your success. Overcoming this minor hurdle may take you 6 months or a lifetime.

Good Luck,

Martin

[Kyle J]

depends on what you call good. I call good high c or better. But that is relative to me. I do not know what i am as i am waiting for my classification to be determined still. ( one more classifier). I could either be low c or high d.

[shooterbenedetto]

Here is my respond to this. Pick up and buy all the DVD instuctional from Matt Burkett.

and dryfire daily 30 min. a day. guaranteed that you will at least be c class or better.

Set your goal!!a,master shooter etc..! then shoot major matches so you can compare your skills against other

class shooters. If you win your class, then the system will bump you up to the next class.

so ..foth and so... on. by the time you are on A class, it is a matter of mental skills and shooting your game at the Big shoots that will really win you the Big prizes...

REMEMBER do not push your self in big matches..it will not work (rob leatham)

Push your self in practice and club shoot with perfect points and good times.

then on the big match, see all A" and just shoot.. the ranking will put you where you need to be.

as for the shooters that are trying to push them selves. 95% they will fall out of the rankings and loose.

good luck..

P.S. if you become a top shooter of YOUR CLASS!!do not get sponsor. it will take the fun out of shooting and you will hate it because it becomes a job and it is not deserving. we all shoot because we love to do it.

[SA Friday]

I don't buy into defining "good". I don't care if I'm good, or someone else's difinition of good. I make goals and work to acheive them. I find shooters that are better than me, and make it a goal to achieve and then surpass their skill level. I recently made my last goal. I have gone on to the next one.

I'm comin for ya EERW.

[Lee Bell]

Everybody else has responded with numbers and methods directly involving action shooting type of skills. Since nobody else did, I'll take a slightly different approach.

Spend some of your range time shooting bullseyes at ranges up to and beyond what you expect to shoot in actual competitionl. I find swinging plate targets to be particularly good for what ails me. They instantly tell me whether or not I have my trigger finger under control. If I jerk, anticipate, milk, anthing but aim and squeeze, I don't hit the plate. If I do it right, I do. Positive reinforement for doing it right, instant negative feedback when I'm not.

By all means, practice your draw, concentrating on safety and technique at first, speed later. Practice magazine changes a lot. When you can do them without thinking about it and without looking, you're on your way to mastering the skill.

Always remember, you're supposed to be having fun. Let things aggrevate you and you'll hold yourself back.

Lee

[PPC Master]

I guess it took me about 5years to go from nothing to Master shooter and State Champ at PPC.

[Micah]

"Good" is a rather ambiguous term. I would certainly say that my M and GM friends are very good, but still being a B class shooter, can I really say that I am good? I am good to C and D class shooters...and perhaps the occasional A and M shooter might see glimmers of talent in my shooting.

I have a goal to reach Master by the end of 2007. To achieve that goal I have written value and goal statements, as well as an absolute training schedule that includes dryfire, livefire, matches at the club and Area level, and physical exercise.

Will I be good by the end of the year? That remains to be seen.

At the end of the day when I drift off to sleep, do I lay there a better shooter than when I first awoke that morning?

Absolutely.

[Z-man]

Natural talent aside, our sport depends largely on repetition and the ability to work at certain skills until they become subconscious (through repitition). I've met people that are very good (M-GM) that have been shooting for 10+ years and slowly worked their way to the top. I've also met some that are at that level after only a couple of years. In my experience the people that get very good fast have a good deal of talent but also put in a lot of work in that short period of time. For instance, someone who does 100 draws a day for a year (36,500 draws) has gotten as many draws in as the shooter that has drawn 10 times a day for 10 years. For many shooters that don't practice much outside of local matches (not even 10 draws a day), they may take a lot longer to reach their goals. It comes down to deciding what your goals are, evaluating what your abilities are, and training accordingly.

Edited January 19, 2007 by Z-man

[Kyle J]

Z-man is a perfect example of good. After a year of shooting he is a master class production shooter. He is a good friend of mine and i asked him how he did it once.His answer was this, "1 hour of draw practice and 1 hour of reload practice every day." I think if we all follow this guideline we would all be excellent shooters.But first we need the will to be great.