Chills1994 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I'd love to have my club post to USPSA so I could see my hits later because I am not like some on our super squad who write down everything BEFORE they sign their score sheets as I am usually the RO for the squad. The clubs web results show combined as well as official scores but that only matters if I don't beat certain people. What I would like to know is do I need to improve accuracy or speed (speeds probably a lost cause). I just whip out my iPhone and take pictures of each scoresheet before I turn my packet in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thanks again Rob, This is much better then using a calculator after the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 While Rob is on here...Any chance of combining two "club codes" for those clubs who have had their club code changed by USPSA? We "lost" 5 years of club results in USPSA db when we dissolved our section and USPSA "renumbered" our club. I'm guessing this has happened to other clubs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreblePlink Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Unofficial or not, I don't think anyone has worked out fair weighting factors for combining divisions. I've seen some combined results that were positively misleading. I would vote against any combining divisions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We post to our own site, and not to USPSA because our site allows us to post all results that EZW will generate.... ... Even at 50-60 shooters a month, sometimes my best friends/closest competitors wind up in a different division. Since they are my yardstick, I need to look to the combined results to see how we're all doing against each other.... There is demand at this level of the game for that. The results are of course unofficial, and are clearly stamped as such.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Unofficial or not, I don't think anyone has worked out fair weighting factors for combining divisions. I've seen some combined results that were positively misleading. I would vote against any combining divisions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We post to our own site, and not to USPSA because our site allows us to post all results that EZW will generate.... ... Even at 50-60 shooters a month, sometimes my best friends/closest competitors wind up in a different division. Since they are my yardstick, I need to look to the combined results to see how we're all doing against each other.... There is demand at this level of the game for that. The results are of course unofficial, and are clearly stamped as such.... whoops! I said that (just going with open and limited based on how everyone seems so hooked on the combined UNofficial results) kinda tongue in cheek knowing that combining divisions will never happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 What is so misleading about unofficial overall results? The overall stage results are sorted in descending hit factors and the stage winner gets all the stage points. When everybody's stage points are added up for the unofficial overall results, the corresponding scores come out just by basic addition. Or is what you consider misleading the fact that "flips" happen where somebody may place higher in the unofficial overall stage and match results, but be much lower in the official stage and match results because of the way stage points are distributed? Remember that overall results are unofficial and only there as a way to compare with other shooters, not as a way to score the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I'm setting the laptop on the floor....and walking away from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Unofficial or not, I don't think anyone has worked out fair weighting factors for combining divisions. I've seen some combined results that were positively misleading. I would vote against any combining divisions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We post to our own site, and not to USPSA because our site allows us to post all results that EZW will generate.... ... Even at 50-60 shooters a month, sometimes my best friends/closest competitors wind up in a different division. Since they are my yardstick, I need to look to the combined results to see how we're all doing against each other.... There is demand at this level of the game for that. The results are of course unofficial, and are clearly stamped as such.... I'm not suggesting that we do anything different on the USPSA than what we can do already on our clubs website..... I'm suggesting that for Level 1 matches only, the overall results sometimes matter to the customer base..... I'm suggesting that it's ludicrous to not be able to post those results to the USPSA website. I'm not advocating that they shouldn't continue to be prominently and boldly labeled as "Unofficial results -- for entertainment value only." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 While Rob is on here...Any chance of combining two "club codes" for those clubs who have had their club code changed by USPSA? We "lost" 5 years of club results in USPSA db when we dissolved our section and USPSA "renumbered" our club. I'm guessing this has happened to other clubs as well. This is a known issue we need to do something about (It's been on the list so long I forgot about it). In any case, the old results are still posted under the previous club's number - not sure if there is an interface to get to them though, but they were not removed from the database. Please post old and new club numbers so I can look. I'm suggesting that it's ludicrous to not be able to post those results to the USPSA website. I'm not advocating that they shouldn't continue to be prominently and boldly labeled as "Unofficial results -- for entertainment value only." There are two issues - one technical, the other policy. As a technical matter, EzWinScore would have to "recalculate" the results; output; and recalculate again, and additional info added to the upload file format to differentiate. This is not insurmountable, but it's a lot more than spending 30 minutes in an evening adding more stats. The other is one of policy - there has never been any traction on the board to publish "results" which aren't actually "results", but stats that look like results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Rob, if you email me some sample PHP code on how to access the uploaded webfile.txt data, and specifically the summary_match.dat, I think I can put together some PHP code to compute UNOFFICIAL overall results for a given match. There will be no need for EzWinScore to "recalculate". That way the computation is done in PHP on the server side, rather than in Powerbuilder on the uploader side. It shouldn't put too much load on the server to compute unofficial results. Edited December 11, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basman Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Great stuff Rob. I found myself looking back over all my scores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Rob, if you email me some sample PHP code on how to access the uploaded webfile.txt data, and specifically the summary_match.dat, I think I can put together some PHP code to compute UNOFFICIAL overall results for a given match. There will be no need for EzWinScore to "recalculate". That way the computation is done in PHP on the server side, rather than in Powerbuilder on the uploader side. It shouldn't put too much load on the server to compute unofficial results. If you can connect to a MySQL database directly, please email me - rob at boudrie dot com. If so, would you be interested in hosting this as a "non-USPSA service?" We no longer use summary_match.dat, and those deprecated lines will eventually be removed from the upload file. The lines that start with a single letter followed by a space are the ones that are currently used. The change was put in place in October, 2010 when we switch from uploading flat files (denoted with $FILE lines), to a true database driven results system that captured the data in a form more suitable for enhanced reports. This change is also why the recently added stats in only available for matches shot under the new database driven system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Sending email... That's perfect! The data I'm interested in has the single letter prefixed lines: A, D, E, F, G, H, and I. Edited December 11, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 While Rob is on here...Any chance of combining two "club codes" for those clubs who have had their club code changed by USPSA? We "lost" 5 years of club results in USPSA db when we dissolved our section and USPSA "renumbered" our club. I'm guessing this has happened to other clubs as well. This is a known issue we need to do something about (It's been on the list so long I forgot about it). In any case, the old results are still posted under the previous club's number - not sure if there is an interface to get to them though, but they were not removed from the database. Please post old and new club numbers so I can look. NT23 (Doubletap Ranch Gun Club) became IPSC75 NT24 (NTP Shooters) became IPSC76 NT25 (Dallas Action Pistol Shooters) became IPSC77 I think you're correct: 1) the results are still there (at least for the matches that I attended and still appear on my match results page), 2) there is no interface to the old club code (NTxx) that I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 As I'm work on presenting the unofficial combined results, I've got a couple of questions for the public regarding re-entries: 1) Should re-entries be shown in the overall results? 2) If re-entries are shown in the overall results, should they be allowed to win a stage and garner all the stage points? The current USPSA match stage results now don't display the DQ's. The older version of the match stage results showed hits and times for DQ'd shooters for stages prior to their DQ. (The older version matches the behavior of the printed stage results that get posted on wailing walls.) Given this information and a squad model, it's possible to infer which stages seemed to be DQ magnets. Do you care if this information can be inferred? I ask because recently, there was a area match that was really hesitant to identify which stages seemed to have a high number of DQ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 As I'm work on presenting the unofficial combined results, I've got a couple of questions for the public regarding re-entries: 1) Should re-entries be shown in the overall results? As long as they are identified as re-entries, absolutely. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 What is so misleading about unofficial overall results? The overall stage results are sorted in descending hit factors and the stage winner gets all the stage points. When everybody's stage points are added up for the unofficial overall results, the corresponding scores come out just by basic addition. Or is what you consider misleading the fact that "flips" happen where somebody may place higher in the unofficial overall stage and match results, but be much lower in the official stage and match results because of the way stage points are distributed? Remember that overall results are unofficial and only there as a way to compare with other shooters, not as a way to score the match. When I was coming up through the ranks, I shot at a club that only put out the combined. (this was a while back, it was good to have scores posted at all). In the combined, I was in 2nd place Limited by a few match points. I had to go through and do the actual Limited scores by hand to realize that I had actually won Limited. It was probably a milestone win for me. I think it was one of the first times I beat a Master class shooter (particularly this shooter). All that to say this... there is a likelihood that clubs would only post the overall. (Many don't ever get the fact that there are "flips".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 As I'm work on presenting the unofficial combined results, I've got a couple of questions for the public regarding re-entries: 1) Should re-entries be shown in the overall results? 2) If re-entries are shown in the overall results, should they be allowed to win a stage and garner all the stage points? Our local club (under Jeff Maass, at the time) used to include re-entries in the stage results...but not assign them any stage points. Jeff would actually just take the few re-entries we had at the time and insert them into the text file (that he posted scores with) by hand. Obviously we aren't looking at doing anything by hand now...but, my line of thinking has always been to allow re-entries (per MD choice), show their results, but not give them stage points. That is my long-winded way of saying that...no, re-entries should not be able to win a stage and get the points (IMO). But, they currently are allowed to do so in EZ, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centermass Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) 1) Should re-entries be shown in the overall results? No. It only further skews the unofficial results... Hmmm, on second thought... are you asking about re-entry for a different division? If so, yes, otherwise no if shooter is same division. Also, no if the shooter is only re-shooting the classifier. Edited December 13, 2011 by centermass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 WRT to re-entries - it's worth noting that most re-entries are in a 2nd division. EZWinscore still treats them as a re-entry, but I don't believe shooting a stage in, say SS, then shooting it in Limited is necessarily the same thing as shooting it twice in the same division. That said, based on my own experience, it's pretty close to a 50% split between improving or declining on the reshoot. The advantage of having run the stage once can often be undone by fatigue or head games. Either way, if someone outshoots me on a stage, I really don't care whether they were blindfolded and shot it without warmup or they spent all day running the same stage with a personal coach. In the end, they ran it better than I did, and I have something to shoot for for the next match. This is especially true of level I matches (by definition, the only place we'd expect to see re-shoots) where titles, prize money, slots, etc aren't on the line. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If you allow a re-entry at your matches, that is OK by me, but if you do, the scores are for fun only wiht the exception that a classifier can be sent in in the same or a different division. No prizes and you have to watch that if in the same division the shooter wins any stage it will skew the final results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If you allow a re-entry at your matches, that is OK by me, but if you do, the scores are for fun only wiht the exception that a classifier can be sent in in the same or a different division. No prizes and you have to watch that if in the same division the shooter wins any stage it will skew the final results. You give out prizes at your level I matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes. Here is the Fee and Award Schedule for the Mid Atlantic Section of Area 8 Match fees: $20 for a USPSA member,a club MAY discount members $5.00 (at old Bridge, we do this) $25 for a non-USPSA member. $40 for a Non-USPSA member, join USPSA at the match and shoot the match for free. Awards are as follows: Division Winner: $ 30.00 (5 in division) Class Winner: $ 20.00 (3 shooters in class) Second Place: $ 12.00 (8 shooters in class) Third Place: $ 8.00 (15 shooters in class) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 After thinking about re-entries, I'm thinking of implementing it this way: For each stage, sort hit factors from highest to lowest. Find the highest non re-entry hit factor. Assign stage points as factored by the high non re-entry hit factor. If the computed stage points is higher than the maximum that can be earned let it be capped by the maximum. To compute the match overall, add up the stage points, and sort by stage points in descending order. This way re-entries can see how they stack up relative to others, but the results aren't skewed too much by a re-entry winning a stage. The alternative is as Flex suggested above, which is to put re-entries into the stage standings, but always give them 0 stage points. For the overall match results, the re-entries will then fall to the bottom of the list since they won't have any points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I love the new stats! Quick request: How about summing the Time column in the Total row? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now