Here is a stage I thought was excellent.

[lawboy]

Here is a stage we shot Sunday in Richmond. It was stage 5 "Bucket List."

I wanted to shoot it over and over to try different ways of attacking the barrels. I saw it shot several different ways by my squad mates and everyone really enjoyed it. Kudos to the stage designer.

Here are a couple videos. I am in the orange and my method was about the slowest.

[Maksim]

Interesting. =)

[inkballedtarget]

Thats a pretty awesome stage!

[Reshoot]

I like that bucket idea! It's different!

(edited for speiling)

Edited December 7, 2011 by Reshoot

[Graham Smith]

While I like the basic idea, I'm going to have to play the devils advocate here and ask if that stage really conforms to Rule 1.1.5.1 which requires that a stage be freestyle? I'm assuming that the stage description requires that the targets be engaged through the buckets.

[centermass]

Same old devil's advocate ploy... Probably a Level I , so stage designer stipulated in WSB that targets must be engaged thru port... legal. If it were a Level II or higher, then shooter could have engaged targets as and when visible... yawn.

[bikerburgess]

looks like fun to me and

I see no problem with "freestyle" for a level 1 match, for a level 2 or higher match you would just need to use some more props to make the targes only avaliable through the buckets.

[Mark R]

I have been thinking about a stage similar to that...

Two stacks of ports (buckets or 12 inch plastic drain tubes cut to 24 inches long) say 5 or 6 ports each stack. Each port pointing a different angle. Then down range, each port would have 1 or 2 targets to engage. Having two stacks of ports about 6 foot apart would give enough freestyle (option to shoot stacks alternatively or continuous), especially if the ports were not the same on each stack. Bottom two ports near ground on each stack would be prone shots from same location.

Edited to add: WSB requires all shots to go through ports.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Mark R

[Steven Cline]

Sorry, but not legal even for Level 1 should the WSB require shooting through buckets. If the shooters choose to do it, that's another thing. It's a long course.

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or

when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify

mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a

long course).

1.2.1.1 “Short Courses” must not require more than 8 rounds to complete

and no more than 2 shooting locations.

1.2.1.2 “Medium Courses” must not require more than 16 rounds to

complete and no more than 3 shooting locations. Course design

and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from

any single location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all

targets in the course of fire from any single location or view.

1.2.1.3 “Long Courses” in Level III or higher matches must not require

more than 32 rounds to complete. Course design and construction

must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single

location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in

the course of fire from any single location or view.

[downtime]

That looks like it would be fun to shoot

[OzzieF]

Here's my first person view. Stage was fun and liked it.

Other than going past the fault line and havin to comeback before taking the shot, it went as planned.

[Shadowrider]

That is some out of the box thinking right there. Gamer heaven!

[Mark R]

Sorry, but not legal even for Level 1 should the WSB require shooting through buckets. If the shooters choose to do it, that's another thing. It's a long course.

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or

when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may ...

Not sure why not for level 1.

[ChuckS]

Not sure why not for level 1.

The bucket thing is a long course. Read 1.1.5.1 again

[Mark R]

Not sure why not for level 1.

The bucket thing is a long course. Read 1.1.5.1 again

Ok...I read it again...Level I can specify where to engage targets...and MAY specify mandatory reloads in short/medium stages. So the WSB states to engage thru buckets/ports and does not require mandatory reloads.

Sorry, but I still don't see why it is illegal for a Level I match...can you splain it to me?

[ChuckS]

Not sure why not for level 1.

The bucket thing is a long course. Read 1.1.5.1 again

Ok...I read it again...Level I can specify where to engage targets...and MAY specify mandatory reloads in short/medium stages. So the WSB states to engage thru buckets/ports and does not require mandatory reloads.

Sorry, but I still don't see why it is illegal for a Level I match...can you splain it to me?

Sure, no problem!

Da rule:

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or

when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify

mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a

long course).

I counted 24 rounds in the orange shirt guy video. That makes it a long course since there are more than 16 rounds. The level one exception does not allow calling out engagement rules for a long course. So, if the buckets are not called out in the WSB, the shooter would be perfectly legal shooting around them. It it was called out in the WSB, the stage would not be legal. A simple fix would be to reduce the round count to 16 or less to fit the criteria for a medium or short course.

Does that help?

Later,

Chuck

[centermass]

Sure, no problem!

Da rule:

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or

when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify

mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a

long course).

I counted 24 rounds in the orange shirt guy video. That makes it a long course since there are more than 16 rounds. The level one exception does not allow calling out engagement rules for a long course. So, if the buckets are not called out in the WSB, the shooter would be perfectly legal shooting around them. It it was called out in the WSB, the stage would not be legal. A simple fix would be to reduce the round count to 16 or less to fit the criteria for a medium or short course.

Does that help?

Later,

Chuck

I remember another 10+ page thread about this... the parentheses refer to specifying a mandatory reload, not the engagement of a target arrays. Grammatically the rule stinks, and obviously opens up differing interpretations.

It would be better if it read:

1.1.5.1a

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged.

1.1.5.1b

Level I matches may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only.

I still think the stage is "legal" for Level I, even if it's not... looks like fun.

Edited December 8, 2011 by centermass

[lawboy]

Let me clear this up for you all as to the legality of the course. I do not know what the WSB said as I do not remember. However, there is no way you were going to get anything but D hits and misses shooting "around the buckets because they were almost butted against the targets and the buckets were not perpendicular to the targets but were ad oblique angles to the target requiring shots through buckets if you wanted hits at all. This is hard to see in the videos but target placement is really what caused you to shoot through the buckets, as is usually the case with good course design. If you look at the very end of OzzieF's video you will see the very last, lower bucket/target array. You can tell that the target is offset behind the bucket and very close to it so getting any angle on the target around the bucket was going to take you much more time than simply shooting through the bucket.

Edited December 8, 2011 by lawboy

[sperman]

You could also do a better job of hiding the targets, so they were only visible through the ports.

[ChuckS]

I remember another 10+ page thread about this... the parentheses refer to specifying a mandatory reload, not the engagement of a target arrays. Grammatically the rule stinks, and obviously opens up differing interpretations.

It would be better if it read:

1.1.5.1a

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged.

1.1.5.1b

Level I matches may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only.

I still think the stage is "legal" for Level I, even if it's not... looks like fun.

Thanks for clearing that up! I wonder how I missed something exhilarating as a 10 page rules thread

Later,

Chuck

(PS: Buckets and compensated guns can be interesting...)

[Mark R]

Yep...there was/is a small-fine-print "AND" in there between the two phrases. That's why I was confused in your stating an illegal stage.

[Graham Smith]

However, there is no way you were going to get anything but D hits and misses shooting "around the buckets because they were almost butted against the targets and the buckets were not perpendicular to the targets but were ad oblique angles to the target requiring shots through buckets if you wanted hits at all.

Thank you for that explanation.

I didn't want to get into the whole Level I vs Level II discussion but we (our club) always tries to make our long and medium courses freestyle. It puts some limits on what we can and cannot do but it's what we've always done and what people expect of us. I know that other places sometimes play rather loose with the whole freestyle thing and I understand that too because they sometimes have a limited supply of props or layout restrictions etc and it's that or nothing. I just looks from the video as if this stage was taking rather a greater liberty than was warranted with Level I exemption.

[lawboy]

However, there is no way you were going to get anything but D hits and misses shooting "around the buckets because they were almost butted against the targets and the buckets were not perpendicular to the targets but were ad oblique angles to the target requiring shots through buckets if you wanted hits at all.

Thank you for that explanation.

I didn't want to get into the whole Level I vs Level II discussion but we (our club) always tries to make our long and medium courses freestyle. It puts some limits on what we can and cannot do but it's what we've always done and what people expect of us. I know that other places sometimes play rather loose with the whole freestyle thing and I understand that too because they sometimes have a limited supply of props or layout restrictions etc and it's that or nothing. I just looks from the video as if this stage was taking rather a greater liberty than was warranted with Level I exemption.

Not a problem. Also, a factor was the shooting box (Rule 1.1.5.1 as noted above) which, in the first video of my opening post, is easy to see if you pause the video at about 0:17. That box was about 20 inches wide and did not allow shooters to lean towards the target array enough to shoot around the barrels so, again, shooting through the barrels was the only real option by stage design. If you wanted to throw some Ds and misses around the barrels you could do that but ...

Edited December 8, 2011 by lawboy

[BOOST]

That Looks like FUN !!!! I would shoot it without complaining . If there was a stipulation in the breifing on how to shoot it, then its fine by me. Its just a level 1 .Some dont understand that it could be built better but its about build time and teardown on the same day..AND HELP!!! Those who complain are most likely the same guys who arrive late and leave early !!!!!!! I think those guys should be illegal --- to play !!!!

[ArmdCtzn]

I like it, very creative use of buckets. I wouldn't care if it was technically "illegal", it looks like a fun, unique challenge with no safety issues. Too many rules can ruin a perfectly fine stage, or sport, for that matter.