EmanP Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I don't shoot revolvers and don't know much about them. I shot a j frame at a bug match once and it sucked. The only M's I'm missing are in SSR and ESR and need to take care of that but don't own a revolver. I have a good deal on a 66 but don't know how it would fair. I know just about everyone loves the 625 for compitition but I've got no use for one. I think second best was the 686? I wanted to get a 629 but they are expensive, I'm not rich and this 66 is available now. Would it be a good choice to shoot in those divisions to get my M or is it a no go? I know the cylinder is slightly smaller than a 686 but don't know if that will affect anything. Edited November 13, 2011 by EmanP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) M66 for SSR and the 625 for ESR... The PF you will want for SSR is 105 and the difference in cylinder thickness is not going to matter one bit shooting a mighty 105 PF .... ESR PF is 165 and I would much rather have a .45 (M625) to shoot that. CCIDPA Website chart. Edited November 13, 2011 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmanP Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Drat, I forgot the Major PF scoring for ESR. Thanks Merlin. Is there anyone that 'rent's a 625 for like 2 weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 [Hello: I use a Model 66 for IDPA that Mike Carmoney did the action work on. It is smooth and silk and feeds great. I use 158gr bullets at 118PF or 118,000. It shoots very soft and is quick. I was told by guys much better than I that they prefer the model 66 over the 686. I shot the classifier and thought I was very slow and made Expert on the first try. My reloads sucked on the classifier as well. I would get the model 66 and have fun. Shooting revolver is a blast and is even better with the lower power factor Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 A 66 or 686 would be an excellent choice for SSR. The choice between them is entirely personal. I prefer the 686 myself. Dunno why, but I don't shoot and reload a k-frame quite as well. A moonclipped 625 is the choice for ESR, of course, but you don't need moonclips or .45acp rounds to shoot in ESR - you just need to make PF. Get good with your speedloader reloads, and you can classify in ESR with an SSR gun. Here, the 686 would be the better choice. I don't shoot revolvers and don't know much about them...The only M's I'm missing are in SSR and ESR and need to take care of that but don't own a revolver. Is there anyone that 'rent's a 625 for like 2 weeks? You'll need a whole 2 weeks? Sandbagger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 You could use either one to classify in both divisions but I wouldn't want to feed the 66 a steady diet of 165PF 357 loads. This would be the only advantage of the 686 over the 66. Bones, Kurt, and Jerry B all shoot k-frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The 66, assuming it's in good shape, would be an excellent choice for SSR. For ESR, as has been pointed out, not so much. Firing full-power .357 Magnum level ammo out of a K-frame is not much fun. Actually, firing full-power .357 ammo out of an L-frame is not much fun either, it's just less not fun. I say get the 66, since it's available now at a good price. knock out SSR, then worry about which gun for ESR when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 586/686 can be used in both,and the 66 will handle the 165pf just fine to run in a classifier..just depends what division you plan on shooting the most.it's been 5 yrs since i shot a ESR gun,prefer the 586 in SSR.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yeah I considered using my LFrame 686 for ESR once I made Master in SSR... but that thought didn't last too long at all. Recently picked up a nice used 625 and will be using this for ESR.. it's a no brainer. Having a few revos laying around isn't a bad thing either. I usually shoot a Glock but I find the revos fun. The most challenging thing with the revos by far is deciding how to do the reloads. I used a strong hand reload for my SSR as speed loaders take a little more dexterity- at least for me. When I switched to the 625, I tried practicing the weak hand reload but quickly gave up as I had build up enough muscle memory with the 686. If I was shooting the 625 for a long time I'd switch. One last thing... one of the finest things about the revos is working on them... that's part of the fun for me. I love shooting... but the other stuff keeps it interesting. Good luck getting the extra 2 Masters with SSR and ESR.. I'm close on ESR as my last one.. but practice time on the off season is killing me! Darkness at 5PM is sad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 66/686 all are a good choice, did some testing with a friend and found the weight of the full under lug on a stock 686 helped recoil over the 686SSR. The stock 686 is three ounces heavier, all that weight is on the end of the barrel. I'm sure the next post will state you can swing the lighter pistol faster so it's a wash but the heavier pistol improved his scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 66/686 all are a good choice, did some testing with a friend and found the weight of the full under lug on a stock 686 helped recoil over the 686SSR. The stock 686 is three ounces heavier, all that weight is on the end of the barrel. I'm surprised it would be noticeable, as the SSR power factor is now down to 105. I'm running a 118 PF and there just isn't much recoil at all in my model 66. I know several 686 shooters who have had their cylinders come off during a reload. I'll stick with my 66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I know several 686 shooters who have had their cylinders come off during a reload. Why would that happen with a 686 and not a 66? Sounds like a matter of the retaining screw coming loose, which could happen on either gun, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Yes. In fact, it can happen to any S&W. And yes, it can happen if the yoke screw backs out, but more likely is that the spring-loaded plunger bends enough to let the yoke past. The cylinder may not fall out, but move forward enough to make it impossible to close the cylinder after a reload. If it happens during a match, it's a real bummer. I'll inspect the yoke screw occasionally & keep an extra in my range bag as cheap insurance. For a competition revolver, a single screw that holds the entire cylinder assembly in place is one of the weak links in the S&W design, IMO. It's one of the reasons I prefer a strong-hand reload with speedloaders, since the cylinder's supported. Weakhand reloads with moonclips don't seem as punishing on the yoke screw, as the moons just drop in. Tom Edited November 17, 2011 by Duane Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) I know several 686 shooters who have had their cylinders come off during a reload. Why would that happen with a 686 and not a 66? Sounds like a matter of the retaining screw coming loose, which could happen on either gun, yes? I haven't had it happen to me, I haven't seen the parts, and I have only a very limited understanding of the internals. As I understand it from a fellow shooter who has had it happen to him, part of the design changed between the 66 and 686, and this change makes it far more likely to happen on the 686. He has looked at the internals and said that the change between the two designs makes it more likely to happen on the 686. I'll see if I can have him describe it to me again. Of the folks who have told me this happened to them, I believe that most of them were doing strong-hand reloads. Edited November 17, 2011 by M1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It's likely that 66s typically use the older 1-piece yoke screw, rather than the newer yoke screw assembly. It seems intuitive the 2-piece plunger design of the "assembly" ought to be more susceptible to excess lateral force. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Like GrandBoule, I prefer the 686/586 but dolike the 66. Another way that the cylinder can disassemble itself is if the cylinder stop (on the left side of the frame, on the bottom rear of the cylinder aperture) is worn. It happened to a friend of mine with an older K-Frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) I know several 686 shooters who have had their cylinders come off during a reload. Why would that happen with a 686 and not a 66? Sounds like a matter of the retaining screw coming loose, which could happen on either gun, yes? Actually, it's physics. I'll preface this by stating it only matters if you intend to reload and fire quickly and a great deal. The average, casual user would never notice a difference between either the L and K frame firing 38 Specials in the course of several lifetimes. The yoke assembly is essentially a lever arm. The crane is longer and the cylinder heavier on an L frame, hence more force is applied to to the system during a reload. All that leverage, coupled with the force of (vigorously) activating a speed loader on the end of the ejector rod, apply stress to the yoke end/screw mating surface. All things equal (design, screw length, etc.) there is more stress applied to the yoke end/screw surface during a reload in an L-frame compared to a K frame. With any given screw design and material attributes, the L frame system will fail sooner. There is essentially no additional force applied to the system with moonclips because gravity is used to drop the cartridges in the cylinder, so the comparison is really not a valid one. If you switch the gun to the weak hand when reloading, at least you have a chance of supporting or catching the assembly before it ejects. The K frame action cycles faster at any given force applied to the trigger, or, conversely, it takes less energy to cycle the action at a give rate than in an L frame. The k frame cylinder is much lighter (esp. a 38 Special k frame cylinder) and the lock time faster. In fact, the L frame 6 shot 357 Mag cylinder is heavier than any other K, L or N frame cylinder of any caliber save the Model 27/28. All that extra mass creates additional torque when the cylinder is rotated. That force that has to be either applied or absorbed by the action components (hand, ratchet, cylinder stop, etc.). The bore axis is also higher on a L frame compared to a k frame. All things equal firing 38 Specials, L-frames will go out of time sooner, wear springs faster and require more general maintenance than a K frame. Again, this means a lot of rounds and dry fire cycles - thousands, tens of thousands perhaps. And, yes, K frames handle (draw, point, start, transition and stop) faster. You'll notice that the weight of the 686 "SSR" is exactly that of a 4" 66 or a 19 - about 39 oz - and the extra weight was removed from the end of the standard L frame full lug barrel - where it effects handling the most. At 105000 PF, recoil is not an issue. In summary relative to firing 38 Special cartridges at 10500PF, you are hauling around and cycling a lot of unnecessary weight in an L frame with no benefit. Craig Edited November 18, 2011 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) It's likely that 66s typically use the older 1-piece yoke screw, rather than the newer yoke screw assembly. That is what I've been told, but I haven't seen the issue first hand. Edited November 18, 2011 by M1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astephenson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I know several 686 shooters who have had their cylinders come off during a reload. This happened in my 686SSR once. I replaced the spring in the yoke screw assembly with a rigid wire cut to length and it hasn't happened since. I do a weak-hand reload and don't support the cylinder while reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 For all the reasons Craig articulated, I want to prefer my k-frame 66. 'Tis a fine gun, indeed, and if the clock when the clock's not ticking, we do fine together. The thing is, when the clock is ticking, I simply shoot my L-frame 686 better. I can't explain why. It just feels like an extension of my hand, and reloads are considerably smoother. Yes, the 66 should be the better choice, but, for me, for now, it isn't - maybe it's why I feel one ideally should shoot both before they decide a priori that they'd prefer one over the other. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 For all the reasons Craig articulated, I want to prefer my k-frame 66. 'Tis a fine gun, indeed, and if the clock when the clock's not ticking, we do fine together. The thing is, when the clock is ticking, I simply shoot my L-frame 686 better. I can't explain why. It just feels like an extension of my hand, and reloads are considerably smoother. Yes, the 66 should be the better choice, but, for me, for now, it isn't - maybe it's why I feel one ideally should shoot both before they decide a priori that they'd prefer one over the other. Tom Same here..have 1 hunting586 ,and 1 586 for idpa,But I own 6 K frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Is it possible to replace the yoke screw assembly in an L-frame with the older 1-piece yoke screw? And would you want to? Assuming it was possible, what advantages and disadvantages might that confer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) The yokes are different. The older screw yoke has a square cut notch at the end, while the newer screw yoke has a 'V' notch at the end. I think that the advantage of the old over the new, is that the newer unit will bounce and the plunger can retract allowing the yoke/cylinder assenbly to pull out of the frame. Personally, I've never had nor seen this problem. Edited November 21, 2011 by RePete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Seen a yoke screw come out several times over the years. Happened to a good shooter this year at the Memphis Charity Classic Revolver Match on the last stage he was shooting. He was lucky in the yoke screw came lose but didn't fall out, he was able to repair the pistol and awarded a re-shoot. My advice, invest in a good screwdriver. Doesn't hurt to stop at a safe area a few times during the match to brush the cylinders and check the pistol over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 My advice, invest in a good screwdriver. Or some blue Loctite. I'm a major fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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