Glockdirtyfour Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hi, I been shooting in USPSA matches for 4 months now. I would like to shoot faster, it seems like the other guys are shooting so fast as if they aren't using there sights. Do any of yall have some tips for this technique? What is the maximum recommended distance for this technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You can be sure that the guys who are shooting fast, and, centering the targets, are "using" their sights (in some way) at every distance. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) You can be sure that the guys who are shooting fast, and, centering the targets, are "using" their sights (in some way) at every distance. be What he said. The only time I use unsighted fire is if I'm shooting at a target I can physically touch. Any further than that and I'll take an acceptable sight picture (which at close distances means that I see the front and rear sight at the same time - and that's usually enough to take an alpha-zone shot). Here's clarification: Edited November 10, 2011 by DyNo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 and now for the man....well...his name isn't spoken around here much, and in my past searches of his name, any of the threads about him spiral down fairly quickly. His name is... wait for it.... D.R. Middlebrooks I am not plugging for the guy. Don't know him from Adam. Just posting this video link as ....well...as like a word from a different paradigm. Just fast forward to the 1:16 mark: Like I said, I am not plugging for the guy. I think I will keep using my sights, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Surgical point shooting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Like I said, he's much maligned on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 luke use the force... when he was shooting those poppers i thik i saw a guy with a sling shot next to that berm. no but seriously he is aiming he just aiming with no sights on the gun, you must have some sort of refference in order to shoot accuratly. Like the bullet maybe inpacting at the very top of the slide in the center, so he is using that as his sights. thats too difficult, I like the bumpy things on top of the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Yup... He has a point of reference and he's sighting down the slide - I consider that "sighting" and it's a legitimate shooting technique. Sights work better than slides for sighting but you can shoot without irons. That's definitely sighted fire though. Edited November 10, 2011 by DyNo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 No sights does not equal taking an unaimed shot. Lets see him shoot from the hip under a table and I'll buy into his "surgical point shooting". I did once take a class at the Chapman Academy where we were taught to use a right angle arm to "point shoot" a target within 1 or 2 yards, but even then, the gun was in the peripheral vision, so there was a type of aiming going on. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just an FYI...Flex does have vids up of himself shooting a USPSA match with a 1911 sans sights. What did it prove, if anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 To answer the OP's question... it takes practice. Practice builds up muscle memory. Experience also teaches you how sloppy you can be with your sight picture. And I think the more student-like or scholarly shooters here call it "index"...or "natural point of aim"....something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Just an FYI...Flex does have vids up of himself shooting a USPSA match with a 1911 sans sights. What did it prove, if anything? That you need only "see what you need to see" to make the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 USE your sights. They are right there...willing to give free information. All they do is tell you were the gun is pointed. Pretty important information. You still have to point it in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) It's an interesting demo, for sure. Jim Cirillo had a concept he called "the silhouette point". This means you don't use the sights to aim, rather you use the overall shape of the slide as, in effect, one very large sight. I'm sure that's what DRM is doing. Obviously he's put in a lot of practice at it, and he's quite good at it. There's a big leap between that and "not using your sights" as a general technique, though. Edited November 11, 2011 by Duane Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 He ought to be much maligned for that mullet. Unless that video was shot in the 80's, that hair do iw ell out of style. come to thinkl of it, wasn't it in the that time frame whem the premier federal agency (FBI) was teaching point shooting? Man, it is just like my wardrobe! You keep it long enough and it will come bck in vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtrooper Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Biloxi23 Sounds as if you may have been exposed to "Ole George" on the FBI range at Quantico Oldtrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Old Trooper: Yep, but it was a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.willikers Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Instinctive shooting does not require using the weapon for aiming. The entire focus is on the target, not the gun. Ask any instinctive style archer or shotgunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 No sights does not equal taking an unaimed shot. Lets see him shoot from the hip under a table and I'll buy into his "surgical point shooting". I did once take a class at the Chapman Academy where we were taught to use a right angle arm to "point shoot" a target within 1 or 2 yards, but even then, the gun was in the peripheral vision, so there was a type of aiming going on. BB Have we talked about this? I am in full agreement with your thinking on REAL sightless shooting (under table). I maintain that if your eyes are open and you can see your gun you are sighting! For reference I have shot several matches without traditional sights on pistols. Once was a state SS championship (took 2nd) and the other was a large local steel challenge (2nd or 3rd) I also use these two pistols as training tools to show students the where the rubber meets the road (TRIGGER CONTROL) I will say it is much easier to use the round top of a slide as a "sight reference" than the aircraft carrier deck that is a GLOCK! I think DR actually shot (and won?) the AH World Shoot-Off Championship without sights on his pistol. (CZ75) Like Flex said... The sights are right there in front of you...USE THEM! Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 If i am not mistaken there was an article in the front regarding a norco guy shooting OPEN (i think) with no sights... Nonetheless, even without the sights you still have a reference when aiming with no sights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D. Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 For anyone who is truly interested in point shooting, may I suggest 'Point Shooting Progressions' on warriortalk.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I've got enough reps through my Open guns (~175,000 rounds) that most of the time I can shoot an IPSC stage with the dot turned off as well and as fast as I can with it turned on. What I can't do is fix any mistakes. At the top level, that's the key to sights-- you need them to tell you what just happened, in case you need to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Another anecdote-- a long time ago I asked Todd Jarrett if he saw his sights on some arms-length hoser targets in a stage. "I see my sights on every target. They go where I look, so when I look at the target, the sights are there" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Notice that for the most difficult shots (100 yards, 70-ish yards on poppers, both Stars) he indexes from low ready or holster on every shot. That's pure repetition, with perhaps some visual reference along the top of the gun. And I'll bet most of that learning came with a gun that had sights on it. I'd say there's several shooters on this forum who could close their eyes, draw, and fire two Alphas at ranges that would boggle the mind. This guy is essentially doing the same thing. And it comes down to lots and lots (and lots more) practice. Essentially, there's two ways to call misses. The best, most accurate and most consistent is by calling them off of the sights. The next, which I experienced quite a bit as a novice shooter, is calling them "by feel". After so many draws/transitions to an open target at x-yards, you begin to know when something "just isn't right" based off of the sensations you're experiencing-- sans any visual input. I'll bet if you gave this guy a semi-challenging (and previously unseen) target array at ranges of 7-15 yards, he wouldn't be nearly as accurate and/or fast as even a mildly accomplished shooter using their sights. Give him time to practice, however-- and the tables might be turned. Dude is talented, no doubt. But it's a very niche-oriented skill that really doesn't serve a whole lot of purpose other than impressive demonstrations. Although he's almost certainly never tried it, I'll bet Brian can shoot several Steel Challenge stages with his eyes closed faster than most people on the planet could with every equipment edge on their side. ESPECIALLY if he practiced doing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) This match was completely "unseen" and challenging, it can be done. Again I am not an advocate of shooting without sights (I miss enough with them). Patrick Edited November 19, 2011 by P.E. Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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