Constant comparison during the match

[No.343]

I shot the MCC this past weekend and I think I made a huge improvement in my mental state by not comparing scores constantly with my squad mates. We had the best squad at this match. I would call it the "A class" squad because first through fourth place in A class came from our squad. I made it a point not to memorize my time and HF after signing my score sheet and I didn't ask anyone about their score for any individual stage. I was asked several times and displayed my score sheet to them. I felt very stable through out the match and had a BUNCH of fun.

Am I the only one who's mental state has been affected by constant scoring comparison against his squadmates?

[waktasz]

One of the things I did this year was to forget about scores during the match. I'm a very competitive person and am generally anxious to see the scores posted online after the match, but worrying about it or trying to add the scores up DURING the match was killing me in terms of stress level and focus.

[No.343]

I'm glad that there are only two of us with that issue.

[bbbean]

I'm glad that there are only two of us with that issue.

Yup. Just the two of you. The rest of us are zen masters and in the moment at all moments. That's why everyone else shoots at the GM level!

[kaiserb]

I shot the MCC this past weekend and I think I made a huge improvement in my mental state by not comparing scores constantly with my squad mates. We had the best squad at this match. I would call it the "A class" squad because first through fourth place in A class came from our squad. I made it a point not to memorize my time and HF after signing my score sheet and I didn't ask anyone about their score for any individual stage. I was asked several times and displayed my score sheet to them. I felt very stable through out the match and had a BUNCH of fun.

Am I the only one who's mental state has been affected by constant scoring comparison against his squadmates?

We have a lot of the score and timer comparisons mid stage at our matches. There are 3 or 4 people who always want to know how fast certain people shoot the stages. One week we started adding 5 seconds to a persons time when we would tell the interested parties. The amazing thing is they shot slower.

One example was Shooter A shot a stage in 19.54 seconds with 0 points down. Shooter B who is a timer junkie was told Shooter A shot the stage in 24.5 seconds. Shooter B commented to Shooter A that they took too long and proceeded to shoot the stage. Shooter B ended up with 2 points down at 21 seconds and told Shooter A again they were taking too much time being accurate. The end of the night Shooter A had beaten Shooter B...

Moral of the story is if you tell yourself (mentally) that you need to shoot better than a certain time/score you will most likely shoot better than the time/score. However if you have bad information you will still shoot faster than the incorrect time, but just not as good as you could have.

It is far better to know your own times for splits, transitions, moving to boxes and taking a shot etc. (from practice sessions) then you can calculate your own rough par time for a match stage and try to beat that time.

[spanky]

What's annoying is having guys come up to you after you shoot and pushing their comparisons on you.

[No.343]

I wish I better understood how something so simple can affect the game. I don't think it is a big deal in a one day match, but it certainly seems to affect shooters performances.

[JKSNIPER]

If you've ever read Jim Owens books on NRA high-power shooting you've heard about how comparison is a VERY bad thing.

They have a board showing the top shooters and its called "The Rattle Board" for 2 good reasons.

When they change the boards around they rattle and when you look at them and suddenly realize you're shooting a LOT better than you thought you were YOU get rattled.

Personally I NEVER compare scores against others during a match.

I try to better what I did last time...the only competition I have is against myself.

Try and shoot against others and now you have a LOT more competition than just yourself.

Forget them and shoot your best and try and better your personal best score from last match.

JK

Edited November 12, 2011 by JKSNIPER

[poopshooter]

good or bad it certainly can be fun and lead to some good smack talk.

[jdphotoguy]

What's annoying is having guys come up to you after you shoot and pushing their comparisons on you.

+1

I know if I did well or poorly on a stage. If it was bad I try to forget it and move on, if it was good I try to keep that mind set for the next stage(s). I only worry about the competition when the match is over, because I can not change how good or bad they shoot, only myself.

[No.343]

If you've ever read Jim Owens books on NRA high-power shooting you've heard about how comparison is a VERY bad thing.

They have a board showing the top shooters and its called "The Rattle Board" for 2 good reasons.

When they change the boards around they rattle and when you look at them and suddenly realize you're shooting a LOT better than you thought you were YOU get rattled.

Personally I NEVER compare scores against others during a match.

I try to better what I did last time...the only competition I have is against myself.

Try and shoot against others and now you have a LOT more competition than just yourself.

Forget them and shoot your best and try and better your personal best score from last match.

JK

At the Wilson Matches in Camp Robinson they would put up the wailing wall. Our coach eventually told us that he would check the scores for us. He knew what he was doing.

[steel1212]

Just shut up and shoot! :-)

What you got is what you got it makes no difference what the other guy does. Shoot as fast as you can call good hits and move on. I used to want to know what so and so shot all the time. Once I stopped and just shot the. Best I could at that time my scores went up.

[MemphisMechanic]

I avoid comparing my scores with anyone else until the end of my last stage.

If they post preliminary scores partway through the match, I avoid that bulletin board at all costs.

[Steve Anderson]

There may be certain personality types who benefit from mid-match comparisons, but they are certainly in the minority.

I've given it a lot of thought, and whatever that characteristic is may be the same thing that seperates world champions from local/regional hotshots.

It seems like we always hear stories about TGO being down on the last stage and "making" a miracle happen. Maybe we only hear about when it works.

And maybe, there are people for whom winning is more important than shooting well.

Meaning, shooting well doesn't matter unless it results in a win.

Ben Stoeger tells us that he tried very hard not to know how he was doing and his buddy let it slip that he was winning the damn thing going into the last day.

This knowledge had a profound effect on his mental state, but he managed to keep it together.

This topic is very, very interesting...

[JKSNIPER]

Although.....Sometimes keeping track can be a good thing....

My partner and I were always opposites in this.

Billy would know down to 3 decimal places EXACTLY where we were in the standings and how we compared against the other teams ...I yukked it up and had fun until they called me to the line...then it's game face on and doing my best to smoke the cof....as soon as I'm done its back to having fun.

One comp a while ago Billy loses track of where we are and rather than take the time to go back to the range house and verify our scores I tell him "Forget it...lets just shoot and have fun." ( I thought we weren't doing well at all)

We come to the last stage (bonus round) and he asks me "What do you want to do on this one...play it safe or go for the gusto?"

I say "Fudge it...if we're going to crash and burn then lets crash and burn while reaching for the stars."

Later on he goes up to the scoring table while I'm having fun socializing...he comes back to me and says "You want the bad news....or the REALLY bad news?"

While I'm figuring out what he means he says "Bad news is...we finished 11th overall."

I'm thinking ...."out of X # of teams thats really not bad at all" when he then says: "The REALLY bad news is......Going into the bonus round we were tied for 3rd place...if we had just stuck with the easy targets we'd be tied for first place right now."

My wail was heard across the state.

[Mitch Harrington]

I have come to this same realization this past season Javier. I noticed that I am more focused and perform at a much higher level when I pay ZERO attention to my times as well as others. The ONLY thing I pay attention to is whether I made my hits or not and if I executed my plan or not. This, along with a positive mental attitude, has helped me greatly this year.

[grapemeister]

The more I think about how other shooters are doing, and the more I worry about my own performance, the worse I do. I'm still working on it, but getting better. One day a master Jedi I will be!

[GlockDoc]

I shot a local match last month, and realized after 3 of the 4 stages that I was doing pretty well. Took a look at my score sheets, tried to work out my hit factors in my head, etc etc. On the 4th and final stage--the classifier, no less--I shot as if I were holding a gun in my hand for the first time. It was miserable.

Amazingly, this is no different from rifle matches I shot in college, where the 9's, 10s, and X's quickly turned to 7s and 8s as soon as I started tallying my scores.

So I too have learned to save the scoring till after the last round is fired. Again.

[kaiserb]

I read Jason Selk's book and came up with the pre-match mental program of "One stage at a time, fast and accurate" Since applying this I do worry about my times or other peoples times during a match. I just shoot the match one stage at a time. If I blow a stage, I go to the next stage with a clear head and resume the modus operandi of one stage at a time.

Book available here and on Amazon http://www.enhancedperformanceinc.com/

[beltjones]

People ask me how fast I shot stages all the time. My answer is almost always the same: "I don't remember." I can usually tell them how many points down I had, but once I check to see if the time is correct on the score sheet I just don't care to remember it any more.

[perjohn]

Same here. I've been trying to be smooth and fast, but not so fast that I don't see two sight pictures for every target. I've even called some shots lately, just by not worrying about anything but the sights. Afterward, someone will ask me what my time was, and I know they think I'm lying when I say I don't know. Matches are MUCH more enjoyable for me when I just worry about the shooting and not where I'm going to finish.

[pjb45]

For the most part, I do not spend too much time on my score card. I look at the time and points. I like to focus on points which I know costs me time but that is my preference.

Locally, I often ask the M class shooter in our squad his time. My expectation is to always be slower.

While on the stage, I will do a quick post shooting analysis. I look to see where I lost time or points; a bad reload, slow to a port, put one into the hard cover (this one really bugs me when I remember the sight picture before pressing the trigger but not as the shot breaks-thus my mistake). I do not dwell on it, I just try to acknowledge what went on. My last thoughts on each stage is 'what I did right'! Even if I tank a stage, my last thought will be about something positive that happened during the COF. ALWAYS.

When I leave the stage, I forget everything about the stage. I do not say, 'ok on this next stage I will do ......'. I shoot each stage and each array in each stage separately.

I never do a comparison with others while at an Area or National match. I have shot with a lot of GMs, so I go in knowing their times are going to be faster. I never try to 'compete' with their times. Some of them do the comparison thing but at their level and experience it works for them.

[Grunt]

Early on, I learned not to compare times/scores as this would influence my thoughts/behavior/performance during the remaining portion of the match. I learned to focus only on my game and remind myself that doing so was truly the only important thing. However, as I progressed I found myself shooting with the Super Squad and frankly, you can't avoid hearing their scores and times (the RO's announce them to everyone!!) So, I had to adapt and look at this information in a different light; i.e. "Wow, he had a good run" or "Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark." I tried to observe these things objectively, and remember that they had nothing to do with my performance (past or future.) I also learned that many of the big boys would often take big risks at times and sometimes it would pay off, and sometimes it would not. So, you just couldn't put too much stock in their times/scores as this may not be an accurate way to gauge things. Still later on, I learned to enjoy the comparing of times/scores with them and take their good natured ribbing or complements if/when they came. Bottom line: know yourself and do the needful to accomplish your goals. At the same time, don't be afraid to grow beyond those "needs" by questioning your motivations/fears/desires.

Grunt

[doublealpha]

I wish I better understood how something so simple can affect the game. I don't think it is a big deal in a one day match, but it certainly seems to affect shooters performances.

Your score at a stage or at a match for that matter is not affected by any means by any competitor of yours. If you shot a bad match but still managed to win, it only means others shot it worse. Mental preparation is crucial in any sport, especially in shooting. A lot of books have been written about the topic, one of which is by our very own Saul Kirsch (called Thinking Practical Shooting) which explains in detail every aspect of the sport. When you shoot a stage, you have to shoot it within your own ability. Speeding up will cost you points, and slowing down for points will cost you time. Shooters who spray and pray with the goal of "nailing a stage" typically lose out and more often than not end up somewhere down the winners list. Knowing where you stand against your competition is a positive thing only if you can keep your focus. Pressure is also not necessarily a negative thing a long as it is managed and does not go beyond its natural stress level curve where you lose out on performance of you go beyond that point. With that in mind, tracking times or hit factors mean very little since at the end of the day a match is added up by points gained by shooters on each stage. What you need to keep track on is points and thats it. There are several applications that do this, the most commonly used is "IPSCore Pro".

If you are a beginner shooter, your focus should be on yourself at all times. This would not be the right time to try to beat the competition but rather you must concentrate on your own performance and perhaps get a more experienced shooter providing you with feedback on the stages you shot. Training correctly plays a vital role in what you learn (good or bad habits) and who you train with also important for your own progress.

Tip of the iceberg

All the best,

Eli.

[doublealpha]

I wish I better understood how something so simple can affect the game. I don't think it is a big deal in a one day match, but it certainly seems to affect shooters performances.

Your score at a stage or at a match for that matter is not affected by any means by any competitor of yours. If you shot a bad match but still managed to win, it only means others shot it worse. Mental preparation is crucial in any sport, especially in shooting. A lot of books have been written about the topic, one of which is by our very own Saul Kirsch (called Thinking Practical Shooting) which explains in detail every aspect of the sport. When you shoot a stage, you have to shoot it within your own ability. Speeding up will cost you points, and slowing down for points will cost you time. Shooters who spray and pray with the goal of "nailing a stage" typically lose out and more often than not end up somewhere down the winners list. Knowing where you stand against your competition is a positive thing only if you can keep your focus. Pressure is also not necessarily a negative thing a long as it is managed and does not go beyond its natural stress level curve where you lose out on performance of you go beyond that point. With that in mind, tracking times or hit factors mean very little since at the end of the day a match is added up by points gained by shooters on each stage. What you need to keep track on is points and thats it. There are several applications that do this, the most commonly used is "IPSCore Pro".

If you are a beginner shooter, your focus should be on yourself at all times. This would not be the right time to try to beat the competition but rather you must concentrate on your own performance and perhaps get a more experienced shooter providing you with feedback on the stages you shot. Training correctly plays a vital role in what you learn (good or bad habits) and who you train with also important for your own progress.

Tip of the iceberg

All the best,

Eli.

Just to make it clear(er), by points I mean "stage points".