lgbmike Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Just started shooting IPSC with about (4) matches under my belt along with a lot of steel plate matches. Yahoo! I am completely hooked! I curently shoot a 1911 .45 but want to move into a doublestack STI/SVI. I have shot a few Open guns and simply love to shoot them. The question is in this stage of my shooting, do you see a problem with me going to Open or any reason why I should not? What do you all think? Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 If I were to start all over again, I'd probably go open first and start my development with the dot. And I could have, if only I didn't waste my money on those "tactical whizbangs" I thought I needed... THIS THREAD is a good read from Travis T, the "reload god" and one of the best in this sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hi Michael,,, Welcome to the sport. If you do some simple searches you will find an extraordianry amout of information on this subject in general and much more on the specific merits of both classes. BE just added a great search FAQ that will help you find the exact info you want. The quick and nasty answer is to shoot what you have and learn the sport. Don't spend the bucks till you are absolutely sure that you are suited to the next class/blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 If I were to start all over again, I'd probably go open first and start my development with the dot. And I could have, if only I didn't waste my money on those "tactical whizbangs" I thought I needed... THIS THREAD is a good read from Travis T, the "reload god" and one of the best in this sport. Thanks for the post, and especially, the reference to the Travis thread. I hadn't even thought about the possibility of learning faster with Open than Limited guns. I really have not made any improvement with my Limited gun, and my eyes aren't getting any younger. I do have an Open gun, so maybe I should give Open a try for awhile and see what happens..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 As Travis says, shooting open lets you learn everything ELSE that is important about IPSC/USPSA shooting with the simpler sight picture of the dot. My development was seriously accelerated due to switching to open from production. There are lots of used open guns out there... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 My development was seriously accelerated due to switching to open from production. "seriously accelerated" Wow! I guess I am going to have to load some 38 Super!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 [my monkey wrench] On the down side, I think it allows the developing shooter to skip a few steps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgbmike Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Flexmoney, please continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 I think he is saying that if you learn from Prod up, you learn sight picture, and some other very vital requisites that aren't quite as paramount if you start with Open. If you learn all the basics, then you can shoot anything, but if you start with Open, you might have to relearn some of the things you skipped in that process.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 If you learn all the basics, then you can shoot anything, but if you start with Open, you might have to relearn some of the things you skipped in that process.. As you say, if you learn all the basics, you can shoot anything. It seems to me that there is a valid argument that says that by starting with an Open gun, you've reduced the number of variables you have to master at one time. Thinking about your point a little more, I think that relearn is not the right term since you really didn't learn these things, and if you want to move to a "division" that needs things like sight picture, then you have to *learn* them. I don't see any reason why it would be more difficult to learn these skills at that point than it would at the start, though? In fact, I think that the argument that it would be easier since you've mastered, say, trigger control in a less difficult environment. Seperation of concerns is often a very valid learning concept ... it just flies in the face of years of shooting dogma which says that you start with iron sights and move up later For what it's worth, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Pretty much what TL said. Of course...I'd make people learn drive using a stick-shift before I'd let them jump to an automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Of course...I'd make people learn drive using a stick-shift before I'd let them jump to an automatic. Do they still make cars with stick-shift? Why? How can people drive, eat, drink, program the GPS, and talk on the cell phone, if they've also got to shift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Michael, for the serious answer: if money is an issue, I'd recommend waiting six months to a year before investing in a gun, just to make sure that you're gonna remain hooked. You might even --- like I did --- decide that you're having a blast shooting a gun you already own. On the other hand, if money isn't an object, and the limited or open gun bug has really bit you, then I think you should just make a choice. Buy either one --- and shoot ti exclusively for at least a year. Resist the temptation to shoot multiple guns, and you'll be amazed at what you learn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I'll disagree with Flex on this one. The Shooting is such a small part of this sport BUT it is the one that seems to get the most attention. The Open gun will allow you to learn getting into and out of a position, shoot on the move, improve eye speed, transitions and actually see what the gun is doing in recoil a lot faster than iron sights. I can teach a monkey to shoot iron sights. Learning the other aspects is what makes the difference between winning and getting your butt kicked. It is much easier to go back and learn one thing, lining up iron sights, than a whole bunchof things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 On the down side, I think it allows the developing shooter to skip a few steps... Well, I guess if I felt I was DEVELOPING, I would worry about it.... [leaving myself open to ALL kind of shots.... I'm going to bed now] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Chriss, If you don't know the fundamentals (lining up the sights for example) how can you proceed any further? Yes it can be done in Open, but I believe you seriously hinder your overall development if you don't know how to call the shot using old fashion iron sights. If you have never learned how to accurately call shots using iron sights, how can you expect to be efficient at doing any high speed and high accuracy shooting? My 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Like I said you can teach a monkey the basics of iron sight shooting. I do it every year with the guys at Qual time. It is all the other things that make you go fast. Once you learn all the good stuff going back and watching the front sight is easy. The dot teaches you what to look for much faster than irons ever will. It is like driving 110 mph then slowing down to 55. 55 seems like you are crawling. The dot will show you every little error which you won't see with irons. If you see the error then you can correct it. The eyes get faster with the dot which then makes tracking the front sight easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Without iron sights...you can use nothing but target focus. Those poor old peepers never get the workout they need from bringing the foucs in and out. The eye muscles get wimpy...then whither away and die. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 A fun project in my twisted mind,,, Take a 1911 type blaster and remove the sights. Give it to one of the bestest limited shooters. Take the best built open blaster and give it to the bestest open shooter. Wonder how the results would fall??? Point being do we really even need sights on a limited gun. Is idex and visual input the same without the reference points? Would be an interesting test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 A fun project in my twisted mind,,,Take a 1911 type blaster and remove the sights. Give it to one of the bestest limited shooters. Take the best built open blaster and give it to the bestest open shooter. Wonder how the results would fall??? Point being do we really even need sights on a limited gun. Is idex and visual input the same without the reference points? Would be an interesting test... Maybe you should try "Fist fire" It's all about what you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc-ipsc Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 (edited) see the new topic CZ-75B or Jericho 941 ? Edited June 8, 2004 by Erik Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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