fastarget Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Wife's gen 4 G 34 wont run reliably for her, it has about 250 rnds on it, shot 120 today and had 14-16 jams due to the slide not cycling back all the way to strip a new round(did the same but more so with the oem spring set up,so we went to the Jager). Trigger is nice , changed the striker spring to 4.5 lbs, and 13lb recoil spring on a Jager rod. The gun will not cycle 100% with 130pf ammo. Does well when I shot it. This same load functions 100% in her M&P Pro with the same 13lb spring. Looks like the next flat recoil spring is an 11 lb, unless I look into the color coded 12 lb from glockworx. So what is my next step a lighter recoil spring makes sense, but how low can I go and be reliable without causing damage. It must be reliable with minor loads. I know S&W would not go back into battery with lighter than 13 lb recoil spring, but we are new to Glocks. This will be her IDPA gun, switching from the pro because the grip feels better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vactor Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 if it works for you and not for her, it's not an issue with the gun. have her shoot another 1000 rounds with a good grip and technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I was having the same problems on my G35 Gen 4 just a few weeks ago. Loads that were chronoed at 125-135 PF in other guns, and which cycled fine in other guns/barrels, wouldn't cycle the slide back on my G35. When I chronoed the ammo in my G35, I was getting PF readings a lot lower. I tried an 11# spring, but I'd still get cycling issues ~50% of the time. I've jacked up my loads to ~150 PF in other guns / ~135 PF in my G35, and that has fixed the problem. I've read other folks with Gen 4s have similar problems, so I've started to wonder if there's something with the Gen 4 barrels (larger chamber perhaps?) that results in lower pressures / power factor readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 We tried that today, same stance and grip, maybe even harder than she handles the M&P (ran 100%), but still issues. Also noticed the brass only ejecting 6-18 in for either of us, the gun could be a bit tight but I need to tune it for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 I was having the same problems on my G35 Gen 4 just a few weeks ago. Loads that were chronoed at 125-135 PF in other guns, and which cycled fine in other guns/barrels, wouldn't cycle the slide back on my G35. When I chronoed the ammo in my G35, I was getting PF readings a lot lower. I tried an 11# spring, but I'd still get cycling issues ~50% of the time. I've jacked up my loads to ~150 PF in other guns / ~135 PF in my G35, and that has fixed the problem. I've read other folks with Gen 4s have similar problems, so I've started to wonder if there's something with the Gen 4 barrels (larger chamber perhaps?) that results in lower pressures / power factor readings. a possibility, will have to chrono these loads (ran 130-133 in M&P,STI and Kart barrels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Maybe convert the Gen4 recoil system to the older Gen3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Maybe convert the Gen4 recoil system to the older Gen3? Did, 13lb ismi on a jager rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98006 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 take a vid of her shooting it and watch for flip.From what you have described, she seems to be not holding it firm enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 fastarget says that the same thing happened when he shot it, so I think it's probably not due to any limp-wristing / grip issue on his wife's part... take a vid of her shooting it and watch for flip.From what you have described, she seems to be not holding it firm enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 ...unless I misread his post... fastarget says that the same thing happened when he shot it, so I think it's probably not due to any limp-wristing / grip issue on his wife's part... take a vid of her shooting it and watch for flip.From what you have described, she seems to be not holding it firm enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Sirloin is correct, the gun did do some jamming in my case as well, but much less. I do believe some is due to less strength on her part, but very little , she is an experienced shooter. The gun still jammed when she death gripped it and locked her elbows. Again in the M&P PRO with 13 lbs(same spring) and stock striker spring, this same load no issues. lightening the striker spring and changing out the oem spring set up did help, she can at least shoot a bunch before it a jam occurs now, with the oem set up the gun jammed for her every round, and I mean every round. Might have to buy a 12 and 11 and try them, but my search pointed out issues when going to an 11 with the gun not completely going into battery etc so best seek wisdom of others with experience. Round springs flat springs oh my. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vactor Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 any problems when using factory ammo? the slide cycles based on the force generated against the breech face by the casing. if there isn't enough power behind it, it won't unlock and then have enough energy left to overcome the dual action spring and fully cycle the slide. it's either the ammo or the technique, and it seems that the technique is not an issue, then it's the ammo. the spring system IS different on the gen 4 dual versus gen 3. just hand cycle an empty gen 4 and you can feel the 3 stages to the unlocking and movement of the spring. it's different, and might just need more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicycle Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I am not a fan of the new recoil assembly in the gen 4 pistols. I have recently got a new 34 as a back up and my round count is only around 300, but so far the gun is flawless. I hope you get it sorted out. Are you having issues with the older captured guide rod too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I am not a fan of the new recoil assembly in the gen 4 pistols. I have recently got a new 34 as a back up and my round count is only around 300, but so far the gun is flawless. I hope you get it sorted out. Are you having issues with the older captured guide rod too? the captured old style spring assembly greatly improved the reliability of the gun with these loads compared to the oem. I need to take some factory ammo, and our regular ammo that I wish to chrono. I have never chronoed a glock , I am wondering if they have slow barrels, and may need more pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 There has not been anything from Glock Training that indicates a new/different barrel for Gen 4 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Yes, I have not found anything different as far as barrels. However Glock barrels maybe slower than the brands we have been shooting this load through. vv320 3.3 147 zero RN 1.150 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpops Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Had this same conversation this weekend at the IPSC Nationals. Rumor is Glock may be recalling some Gen 4's due to extractor issues. Most people shooting the 17's have experienced the same things you have. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Yes, I have not found anything different as far as barrels. However Glock barrels maybe slower than the brands we have been shooting this load through. vv320 3.3 147 zero RN 1.150 . The polygonal rifling typically makes them faster, actually. Death grip and locked elbows does not directly transfer to/mimic strong wrists. However, if (after the Jager rod) the gun is still having feed issues for other shooters, it may indeed be a mechanical problem. Are you seeing any odd/accelerated wear spots on the frame rails? What lube are you using-- and how much? Does anything feel "off" during hand cycling of the weapon? How many rounds have you got through this thing? Keep in mind that the ISMI springs do experience some significant break in within the first 500-1k rounds. When switching from a worn 15 to a new 13#, I thought for sure they'd sent me the wrong weight. After some shooting, it was quite obvious that they had not. You are running a reduced power striker spring, I take it? 13# (worn) and lower can result in some unlocking issues as the gun slips out of battery with the factory weight spring. My guess is that this particular G34 wouldn't have that problem, but it's something to be aware of as you go lower and lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I too had read that the Glock's polygonal rifling led to higher pressures and faster bullets. However, my own experience using Berrys plated bullets, as well as the experience of some other folks who've posted load data here at brianenos.com, have been that the bullets actually come out slower in a Glock. Yes, I have not found anything different as far as barrels. However Glock barrels maybe slower than the brands we have been shooting this load through. vv320 3.3 147 zero RN 1.150 . The polygonal rifling typically makes them faster, actually. Death grip and locked elbows does not directly transfer to/mimic strong wrists. However, if (after the Jager rod) the gun is still having feed issues for other shooters, it may indeed be a mechanical problem. Are you seeing any odd/accelerated wear spots on the frame rails? What lube are you using-- and how much? Does anything feel "off" during hand cycling of the weapon? How many rounds have you got through this thing? Keep in mind that the ISMI springs do experience some significant break in within the first 500-1k rounds. When switching from a worn 15 to a new 13#, I thought for sure they'd sent me the wrong weight. After some shooting, it was quite obvious that they had not. You are running a reduced power striker spring, I take it? 13# (worn) and lower can result in some unlocking issues as the gun slips out of battery with the factory weight spring. My guess is that this particular G34 wouldn't have that problem, but it's something to be aware of as you go lower and lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLoin Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Yeah, makes sense that it shouldn't be caused by a Glock barrel -- whether Gen 3 or Gen 4 -- being different from another Glock barrel. From what I understand, Gen3 and Gen4 barrels are the same. The difference might be with how Glock barrels differ from other manufacturer's barrels. Have folks seen a difference in power factors when switching from an OEM Glock barrel to an aftermarket (KKM, Lone Wolf) barrel? Yes, I have not found anything different as far as barrels. However Glock barrels maybe slower than the brands we have been shooting this load through. vv320 3.3 147 zero RN 1.150 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I too had read that the Glock's polygonal rifling led to higher pressures and faster bullets. However, my own experience using Berrys plated bullets, as well as the experience of some other folks who've posted load data here at brianenos.com, have been that the bullets actually come out slower in a Glock. I think it depends on what other barrels you're comparing them to. As well as bullet composition, as plated (near lead) vs. jacketed is a different story. And as we all know, each brand of bullet has a "different take" on .355, one way or another. For MG 124 JHP's and factory jacketed, in my experience and others I've talked to, there is a slight increase in velocity over standard barrels. Or it may be gun-to-gun. But good info, nonetheless! I've also heard that M&P barrels are slower? But no personal anecdotal evidence (yet) to compare that to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Also, to add-- If you're shooting around a 130 PF, any differences experienced from one manufactured barrel to the next (in terms of velocity/back pressure anyway) should not be enough to throw off the cycling of the pistol. Given, you might be on the hairy edge and this would be true-- but I can run powder puff loads through my G17 that are far short of the power floor and work the action just fine. (Brass comes out in a trickle, though-- so you know you're getting closed to FTE/FTF issues.) That's was with a 15# spring, BTW. And I'd wager they'd work the factory weight as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Also, to add-- If you're shooting around a 130 PF, any differences experienced from one manufactured barrel to the next (in terms of velocity/back pressure anyway) should not be enough to throw off the cycling of the pistol. Given, you might be on the hairy edge and this would be true-- but I can run powder puff loads through my G17 that are far short of the power floor and work the action just fine. (Brass comes out in a trickle, though-- so you know you're getting closed to FTE/FTF issues.) That's was with a 15# spring, BTW. And I'd wager they'd work the factory weight as well. The mystery deepens.......here we are using an ismi 13. No odd wear, smooth hand cycling better than oem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glock34shooter Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Have you considered letting another experienced shooter take to the range and try it. Sometimes we have stop looking at thing objectively due other experiences. You have started several times that your load works in her M&P, but it obviously does not work for your 34. Is it unreasonable to tailor a load to the 34? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Obviously you're not getting enough energy to reliably cycle the action. Why not just bump the load a few tenths and call it good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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